Two! parking tickets!

[TheSquare]

Please could you advise me if you know about these things.
I parked for several hours in a motorway services' car park on the way and on the way back of a long journey. It was dark when I arrived and light when I left, I looked around for signs and learnt that parking was free for two hours and I should see signs for details. I couldn't see any signs in the area that I was parked in and couldn't see a parking meter to pay. I concluded the vague sign was just to put off motorists overstaying and making the car park too busy. The facilities were good and felt safe (lone female) so I also stopped at the same place on my return journey. I called my partner to discuss my anxiety about not paying for parking and he said they may have number plate recognition and I should really check again. I found some other signs but no way of paying. There were no machines. The number on the sign had an answering machine message saying they were only open midweek office hours (it was a weekend) so to me this confirmed my first conclusion, I continued on my journey.
Subsequently I have received two parking charge notices they want a total of £120 by next week or £240 after 28 days - is their claim reasonable? Do I have grounds for appeal? What should I do?

[TheSquare]

Any one know if this is an active advice forum? It looks like people read posts?

[Amethyst]

Yes, but it's very busy (as you should see from other threads) and occassionally posts get missed, usually if made at night or weekends when they fall down the list quickly on a Monday. Anyway, I'll tag ostell for you.

So you parked for a nap at night - any idea how long for each time ?

Could you not see any other signs with details of who to call to pay ? Looks like the number on the bigger sign is just the parking companies office.

Could you upload a redacted (of your details and reg number - leave dates and times visible) copy of the parking charge notice you received please.

[TheSquare]

Oh thank you for replying Amethyst. I stayed for several hours - well over two, I slept and ate. I did not see any other signs and I was looking. There was definitely nothing like the sign they evidence in the parking charge notice. Even if there is another sign somewhere it seems to me the one I found is deliberately misleading. Why say pay by mobile phone and not clearly put the correct number next to that instruction on those signs but expect them to go searching a car park on a goose chase? Not an appropriate expectation for solo travellers especially at night. It's not like they are short of space on the signs and that is the key information required to make it straightforward to pay. I feel like I've been tricked. I'll try and post a photo of the charge notice...

[Amethyst]

I completely agree with you on that - the number to pay should be on the sign saying you have to pay. It does seem rather misleading to say pay by phone, then have a number that isn't the pay by phone number on the sign. You tried calling it but they were closed....

Which services was it? I wonder as those signs are called "PArking REminder" if they were actually up at the food/loo bit rather than in the car park.

ostell are there any others of these kind of ''offences'' and do you know how appeals got on with the misleading signage argument?

Otherwise, as these things do escalate to court and end up costing far more than the pay within 14 days amount I, personally, just get them paid - then probably do some letters of complaint to the services and the parking company. Rather than risking the amount being ramped up massively. But that's just my personal view.

[TheSquare]

Thank you. It was Cherwell, Bicester. They seem rather more than reminders to me.

[pt2537]

there was a case where a lawyer fought these charges if i recall correctly on the basis the charges were unfair under UTCCR or CRA 2015 and that the bevis and parking eye case could be distinguished on the facts.

Seems to me that you take a break from driving then youre doing the right thing and shouldnt be punished for it.

Can i ask how busy the car park was at the time you parked?

[Amethyst]

YOu can 'walk' around the car park on streetview https://www.google.com/maps/@51.9494...7i13312!8i6656 - have found the signs you have the pictures of but can't see those Parking Reminder ones... looking tho

[Amethyst]

Ahh found one... couple hidden in trees too - they are from 2016 though so completely different as that was when StreetView went round the carpark last presumably.

[ostell]

My hazy memory says that you can complain to whichever government department that over sees service areas pointing out that the whole idea of the service area is to provide a resting place for those that are tired as the driver was tired and it would have been dangerous to continue. THe driver pulled over as advised be several bodies. I believe it has worked and the charge cancelled.

You complaint to the parking company will be that there was frustration of contract. you were willing, and tried, to pay but there was a failure with their systems and you could not make a payment. Office hours to handle a 24 hours operation are not acceptable. Have you got, or can you get, documentation that you called their number>

[TheSquare]

there was a case where a lawyer fought these charges if i recall correctly on the basis the charges were unfair under UTCCR or CRA 2015 and that the bevis and parking eye case could be distinguished on the facts.

Seems to me that you take a break from driving then youre doing the right thing and shouldnt be punished for it.

Can i ask how busy the car park was at the time you parked?

It was mostly nighttime so not very busy.

[TheSquare]

My hazy memory says that you can complain to whichever government department that over sees service areas pointing out that the whole idea of the service area is to provide a resting place for those that are tired as the driver was tired and it would have been dangerous to continue. THe driver pulled over as advised be several bodies. I believe it has worked and the charge cancelled.

You complaint to the parking company will be that there was frustration of contract. you were willing, and tried, to pay but there was a failure with their systems and you could not make a payment. Office hours to handle a 24 hours operation are not acceptable. Have you got, or can you get, documentation that you called their number>

Thanks, I'll check my phone record.

[TheSquare]

Ahh found one... couple hidden in trees too - they are from 2016 though so completely different as that was when StreetView went round the carpark last presumably.

Brilliant idea!
How bizarre to have a trail of different signs. It would be so much more sensible to have all the info required on all signs instead of piecemeal like some sort of orienteering game.

[Amethyst]

That'd be far too easy, and they wouldn't make as much money

The one they have pictured on their form, if it does exist, also says you can pay inside the services at the shop or restaurant - so why doesn't it say THAT on the main signs too.