Robbery!!

[Fetherston]

My local council finally won in part at Tribunal after 23 hearings and has now obtained Liability Orders for up to four times the amount for each year (it goes back over 20 years). In some cases the amount of the summons and therefore the liability order is twice or more the amount of the original council tax bill. I went to the hearing but was not allowed to hand in my evidence. They are now going for a charging order on my house with a view to forcing a sale. This has gone on for over eight years and I cannot get any help with it. What on earth shall I do??

[wales01man]

Re: Robbery!!

Is the 4x the fees and costs on top or have they increased the tax bills?

to save your house have you tried to agree a payment plan and start paying while you can get advice

[Amethyst]

Re: Robbery!!

This thread has a bit of the history on this case http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ability-orders

[Crazy council]

Re: Robbery!!

Hi

i will have a full read up over the weekend. Fetherstone.......I have been exactly in your position.. I think i can contribute . but will read up first.

Some general advice.

split this in 2
1. The money you owe. Make an offer of some payment weekly ( keep it affordable but be realistic ). Pay it direct into the council accounts........ ( 20- 50 pw ), saying you will increase it when the disputes are dealt with.-------Do this today if possible ( first payment )..... The council account no is on the back of the bills, let the first payment clear ( a few days, then inform them you have started making payments.

2. The argument over the LOs and the appropriateness of how they have dealt with it------------- I will advise you next week what paperwork to serve, what questions to ask, and how to deal with it.

LGO is a waste of time with these issues. More direct actions, asking questions about costs, wages and who makes decisions like this to handle the public this way....... thats the way you will start to get this sorted.....

You will not get these to be reasonable or act properly until you start asking them the right questions. I will show you how to use the DPA act and FOI act to get more direct answers in relation to why they acted like this


It would be helpfull if you listed the CT accountrs and years, name the council, was any NNDR ( business rate ). and when were the LOS gained ( dates ). Your current finacial curcs. The names of the solisitors you councikl uas Any bit you think to public, PM me, but consider, them more you put on here, in the open, the more likely you will get a number of sound opionions, leaving you to decide what way to go.

JUST DONT IGNORE THIS OR THEY WILL GO FOR YOUR HOUSE..

[Fetherston]

Re: Robbery!!

It is Warwick District Council. The claim dates back to 1995 and the big problem is we dont have much in the way of records for those years - although we paid some CT in all of the years in question. The claim is for 20 years of single person benefit. (incidentally, I was living alone!) I am now married and we were declared bankrupt in 2008 and now live on Pension Credit. They have refused to accept any payments except the full amount which is now in excess of £23,000. The Tribunal ruled an amount of £4,400 was due. I dont have a solicitor - we have never been able to find anyone who would take it on - there were 900 admitted documents by the last hearing. None of this was business rates.

[Crazy council]

Re: Robbery!!

Hi

The claim is for 20 years of single person benefit. (incidentally, I was living alone!)

What dates were you living there alone,

we were declared bankrupt in 2008 and now live on Pension Credit

Not sure how this would work with a reclaim. I though they were limited to 6 years for reclaim but things must have changed

They have refused to accept any payments except the full amount which is now in excess of £23,000.

They will do, trust me, do as i said in the first post, work out yourself a affordable weekly payment and just pay it into there account with your CT reff number.......Councils do this all the time...

For them to charge against your property, they will have to put in in front of a judge. Act properly now by making some payment weekly and regularly. --------MAKE SOME PAYMENTS TO THE COUNCIL-------- This will help when it comes to the judge. ( there account number is on the back of the bill

The Tribunal ruled an amount of £4,400 was due. I dont have a solicitor - we have never been able to find anyone who would take it on - there were 900 admitted documents by the last hearing

I can help with this side but only if your making payments, because to get them to drop the legal charges, Once you have done that

1. Do a SAR toi get the meningfull docs ( i will help with that, particularly action dates )
2. Ask the council to split down and justify the legal charges, get a full split down.
3. What was the name of the council solicitor that acted on there behalf.

Then, there a 2 FOI request to do, to find out how much the council have previously paid this legal firm. Councils tend to use,,,,friendly solisitors,,,,, these friendly solisitors dont always act properly, and there regulator is much more important than any council regulator.

This is the plan.

If any of that 4400 is wrong, you have a chance. even at this stage. How many years was you at that property alone... Focus initially on that. Find a fault

Then, if you can find a fault, FOI the council for the wages and bonuses for the collection and enforcment department using WDTK site. I will help when you get to this stage. But just incase i did not make it clear

MAKE SOME WEEKLY PAYMENTS DIRECT INTO THERE ACCOUNT

[Fetherston]

Re: Robbery!!

I have done as you said and made an initial payment of £20 to them and they have returned it saying they are not prepared to take stage payments and the whole amount is now due. What on earth do I do now. I need a solicitor but I just cannot find one who will help me pro bono and I cant afford to pay. We live in an area which is not served by a law centre.

[Crazy council]

Re: Robbery!!

Hi

How did they return it, did they pay it back into your account ?

payment of £20 to them and they have returned it saying they are not prepared to take stage payments and the whole amount is now due.

Is that recorded ( ie in a letter ).

Like i said at the start, split your action in 2,
1. The legal action and costs that they are going for
2. The CT corrections and things to sort.

Something springs to mind but am not sure

we were declared bankrupt in 2008 and now live on Pension Credit.

I wander if the adjustments to CT prior this date should have been included in the bankruptcy or included in the writoffs.

Can you post up a full list of the individual accounts charged, and the dates they were charged for,,, plus the date they first imposed the charges ( ie when did they first adjust the account )

You need to ask for a breakdown of the legal charges from the council by letter, keep in mind that any letter may be read out in front of a judge. Be clear and concise in your letters. Keep saving and recording the £ 20 pw payment to be available for court.

You have probably worked out that they council will totally refuse to sort it out reasonably, so repair for the judge. Act reasonably in all communications, try and find a fault, try expose any over charges, by there solicitors. You will want this breakdown fo legal charges at least a week prior to court.

Post up the accounts and i will have chance later or tomorrow to go through it.

[Fetherston]

Re: Robbery!!

As for the £20 cheque it was just returned in an envelope with a compliments slip. They had previously said they wouldn't accept payments on account. We did try to say at the last tribunal that amounts before 2008 should have been included in the bankruptcy but the judge ruled that as they were not actually claimed (even though they date back many years before) until later in 2008 it was right that they were not included in the bankruptcy. I am not sure I agree!

Liability orders - we think - have been issued for the years 2000 - 2008 - although the tribunal covered 1998 - 2007.

This is the list for those years -
00-01 - tribunal £689,00 - claimed £3595.29p
02-03 - tribunal - £460.90p - claimed £1165.81p
03-04 - tribunal - £1010.07p - claimed ££1431.75p
04-05 - tribunal - £ 1080.18p - claimed £ 1525.24p
05-06 - tribunal - £ 1115.71p - claimed £1572.61p
06-07 - tribunal - nil - claimed ££1645.38p

In each case they have put in claim for liability order for far more than the tribunal ruled was due. Despite a formal complaint they have failed to explain this!!

Many thanks for your help.

[Fetherston]

Re: Robbery!!

update - have had a telephone call from the court asking for a meeting ( this morning) - they are concerned that "correct protocol was not followed" in my case - whatever that means. Should be interesting.

[bizzybob]

Re: Robbery!!

update - have had a telephone call from the court asking for a meeting ( this morning) - they are concerned that "correct protocol was not followed" in my case - whatever that means. Should be interesting.

Have the court woke up to the fact the council are taking the pi$$ out of the system and acting unlawfully?

[Crazy council]

Re: Robbery!!

Hi fetherstone.

Dont rely on them doing the right thing. Some points

As for the £20 cheque it was just returned in an envelope with a compliments slip.

Keep sending them, even though they return them, or take my origional advice and pay it by standing order direct into there bank from yours

update - have had a telephone call from the court asking for a meeting ( this morning)

When is the meeting, DONT GO UNREPRISENTED. did they give you any other details.

I wander if the adjustments to CT prior this date should have been included in the bankruptcy or included in the writoffs.

Can you post up a full list of the individual accounts charged, and the dates they were charged for,,, plus the date they first imposed the charges ( ie when did they first adjust the account )

You need to ask for a breakdown of the legal charges from the council by letter

Have they formaly reffused this, if not, ask by letter to have the items listed before you attend the court. ( again, you may need this for a judge ).

Keep this in mind.

This is the plan.

If any of that 4400 is wrong, you have a chance. even at this stage. How many years was you at that property alone... Focus initially on that. Find a fault

The council rats, will try keep that figure as high as possible, you need to fight properly to get it down as much as possible. If they reduce the amount owed by a reasonable amount, its very unlikely a judge will allow them to procced with taking action against you property if your making payments.

[bluebottle]

Re: Robbery!!

update - have had a telephone call from the court asking for a meeting ( this morning) - they are concerned that "correct protocol was not followed" in my case - whatever that means. Should be interesting.

This is telling and possibly indicates court staff have found anomalies in what the local authority has done or not done.

[Crazy council]

Re: Robbery!!

This is telling and possibly indicates court staff have found anomalies in what the local authority has done or not done.

i think i may b e able to guess what but would need some more detail from the OP. Also, it may not be the court that has noticed the discrepancy, it may be the council solicitor that has informed the court of it.

[bluebottle]

Re: Robbery!!

I am helping someone with a similar case and it looks like the judge who adjourned the case has sussed something is not right.