I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Star Chamber. Totally unlawful. I have serious doubts as to the validity of Liability Orders obtained in this way and the lawfulness of enforcement action pursued under the LO. The civil enforcement industry needs to wake up before it goes hurtling over the edge and into an abyss of no return.

In view of this I think I would like to challenge the LO ? In response to my £2 a week offer I have had a letter saying

"After looking into your account I can confirm I have set a temporary arrangement for the balance of £231.05 due on 31st March. Please ensure you pay all you can towards this amount up until 31st March and contact us on 1st April to extend the arrangement"

I am now claiming JSA, so can't pay much more. Presumably I write to them explaining that they have not followed the proper procedure ? Would it be correct to allege their behaviour is vexatious because they did not take my circumstances into account before the hearing which was then not correctly executed as per rule 5 ?

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

In view of this I think I would like to challenge the LO ? In response to my £2 a week offer I have had a letter saying

"After looking into your account I can confirm I have set a temporary arrangement for the balance of £231.05 due on 31st March. Please ensure you pay all you can towards this amount up until 31st March and contact us on 1st April to extend the arrangement"

I am now claiming JSA, so can't pay much more. Presumably I write to them explaining that they have not followed the proper procedure ? Would it be correct to allege their behaviour is vexatious because they did not take my circumstances into account before the hearing which was then not correctly executed as per rule 5 ?

In order to challenge an LO, you have to lodge an appeal with the High Court. There are time-limits applicable to this under CT legislation. With proceedings under the Human Rights Act 1998, you have 12 months from the date on which the act that was incompatible with your Convention rights occurred in which to commence proceedings. However, you have to exhaust all other avenues first before proceeding to court under HRA.

In your case, the Local Government Ombudsman (LGO) may be a viable option, in which case, you should initiate a formal complaint with the local authority. Once you have exhausted this, you can then refer the matter to the LGO. However, do first contact the LGO to check whether they can accept a complaint about your particular case due to its circumstances.

If you are on JSA, is it Contribution-based or Income-Related? If the latter, you should be entitled to CT Support. However, the over-riding factor is, "What the hell is the local authority playing at?"

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

I have now submitted my complaint.

Watch this space.

[atendoftether]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Have you been to welfare rights . DWP should take a representative amount over a certain period, although that was a while ago I don't think it has changed. Presumably as IDS (Ian Duncan Smith or IBS (irritable xxxxxxx syndrome )as I call him has been saying everything is now miraculously online. If you could put in a working tax credit claim and post online weekly receipts it might just get you out of this hole. We had to reasess council tax benefit if the self employment reduced.Unfortunately the Council Tax legislation is really draconian and it is one of the few that carries the ultimate sanction of imprisonment. Shades of Dickens Marshalsea Debtors Prison It also allows for councils to slap on extra charges.There is some current problems with baliff firms being employed by Councils which I believe isbeing adressed. If you couldn't actually be at the Court you can still put in a representation in writing pointing out any mitigating circumstances. I hope you get something sorted it seems if a slightly higher income could be the key

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Unfortunately, Council Tax Liability Order hearings are a stitch-up between the local authority and the Justices Clerks Society, in that the local authority is running the hearing, not the court. This is a clear breach of Article 6, Human Rights Act 1998 (Right to A Fair Hearing) and unlawful. Courts and local authorities are not exempt from the HRA and it does no harm to firmly and frequently remind them of this so they are aware the travesty and fraud they are practising is common knowledge. Believe me, it does scare them because once individuals are identified they know one of the consequences is prosecution for Misconduct/Misfeasance/Malfeasance in Public Office.

[seduraed]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

have had similar problems . I work in several different businesses. I fear that you need to do weekly income forms so that you can claim benefit. With all your jobs combines do you estimate that you work more than an average of 16 hours per week . If so I think you may be able to claim working tax credits for those weeks . Talk to the staff about it they are usually helpfull. Check to see if there any charities in your area that you may be able to apply to . £1.50 per week is sort of money that that a charity for people in personal financial neeed may be able to come up with . Have you applied to use a food bank to relieve some of the strain on your finances. Also check if there is help available with your utility bills.

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Have you been to welfare rights . DWP should take a representative amount over a certain period, although that was a while ago I don't think it has changed. Presumably as IDS (In Deeo S**t or IBS (Irritating, Boring and Sarcastic) as I call him has been saying everything is now miraculously online. If you could put in a working tax credit claim and post online weekly receipts it might just get you out of this hole. We had to reasess council tax benefit if the self employment reduced.Unfortunately the Council Tax legislation is really draconian and it is one of the few that carries the ultimate sanction of imprisonment. Shades of Dickens Marshalsea Debtors Prison It also allows for councils to slap on extra charges.There is some current problems with baliff firms being employed by Councils which I believe isbeing adressed. If you couldn't actually be at the Court you can still put in a representation in writing pointing out any mitigating circumstances. I hope you get something sorted it seems if a slightly higher income could be the key

I've fixed your post for you. :grin:

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Here is the latest correspondence.


Firstly I sent this email, and their reply is posted after it :


You are currently seeking payment of a liability order for the sum of approximately £230 in respect of my council tax bill. My complaint has five parts relating to this :
1. That Lambeth failed in their obligation to take my financial circumstances into account before charging me for Council Tax;
2. That Lambeth failed in their obligation to take my financial circumstance into account before proceeding with the Liability Order;
3. That the liability order is excessive in view of my extremely low income, full details of which you have been given on several occasions;
4. That the costs you included in the liability order are excessive;
5. That the Liability Order is not actually lawful because it was not executed in accordance with the law.
I therefore request that the Liability Order be withdrawn.
My current circumstances are that I am now claiming and receiving Job Seekers Allowance of £71.70 per week, and am therefore unable to pay the amount in full immediately as you request, but I am now making small regular payments as and when my benefits are paid. Obviously given that the DWP have a program of illegally withdrawing benefit payments at random, I would not be able to continue these payments if I become a victim of this process.

And here is their 2-page reply :

[Crazy council]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Can i offer some advice here.

90% of the advice you have been given above looks ok, but is just paperwork and a waste of time. What you need to do is deal with the LO and costs before it gets out of hands.

2. That Lambeth failed in their obligation to take my financial circumstance into account before proceeding with the Liability Order;
3. That the liability order is excessive in view of my extremely low income, full details of which you have been given on several occasions;

There are 2 points that have some validity, but to use them you need to prove them.
For point 2 Do a DPA request, also ask for phone and contemporty notes, they will send you a form asking you to detal what you want, just write EVERYTHING RELEVENT to my CT, PROPRTY and handeling of my finacial affairs.
For point 3, i would need to know who your council are to advise properly, and how much of the claim is costs over actual CT due.

To fight the LOs after 14 days is very hard. VERY VERY HARD, There has to be a fault in the service procedure ( court side ) , or a very serious fault in the process side ( council side ).

If this was me, i would target the decision making offers and there manager. Ask them to state facts. If you still dealing with this and want a hand, reply to this

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Hi CC,

Yes please, I would appreciate some help.

What is a DPA request ? The Council is Lambeth. My understanding of the previous advice is that there are faults in the service procedure and the process side ?

Thanks, NT

[Crazy council]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Hi

I did not see the letter from them before i responded. In relation to that letter, i can see what they have done, a no fault change. I can tell by the letter there is no fault in there service, excessive charges, mmmmm, if the claim was for under £ 100, maybe, so i would not bother with the court route, waste of time and effort.

I may though, see if i could get them ( council ) to remove the fees, added, your outstanding CT is around £ 130 i think. Letting them take it from your JSA is the best way forward, just maintain it when you find employment.

I will try and word the letter for you on here later today, give you a recommendation

you ask what is DPA request.

its a Data protection subject access requests. ( but you dont need to do one now ). Its this act you use to get all information held on systems by public bodies. I need to read through your thread again before i write the letter

[outlawlgo]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

4. The level of costs to be charged where agreed some years ago by Camberwell Green Magistrates' Court and were based upon the actual cost to the council in taking the various steps leading to the issuing of the summons and the application for a liability order. Therefore, they are not excessive.

See what they come back with to this Freedom of Information request:

Composition of Council Tax Summons costs

.......In 2006/07 the ratio of the costs changed with 68% of the total costs £95 being made up of the Summons costs.

In 2009/10 the ratio of the costs changed with 96% of the total costs £127 being made up of the Summons costs.

Q. Please supply, separately and in relation to each review of the summons and liability order costs charged to individual householders in respect of council tax covering the above period;

all information you hold to justify the changes, for example the reason for any change in composition of charges, and/or increases with calculations in support of the changes.

Included in this information would be cabinet documents or similar that would have been necessary to propose the changes and subsequently agree and implement them.

It kind of proves that the Council just make up the figures and the Magistrates' court goes along with it.

[outlawlgo]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

3. ... Because the cost of extra borrowing caused by late payment or default has to be met by council tax payers as a whole, either through increased council tax charges in subsequent years or further reductions in the level of services that can be provided for the residents of London Borough of Lambeth, Lambeth Council takes a zero-tolerance attitude when this occurs.

The above is very misrepresentative of reality, in fact the opposite will be true. Rather than having to borrow extra money, the nature of the recovery process means that less borrowing will be required. In many cases, outstanding council tax will be paid early (lump sums) on receipt of the summons because of instalment withdrawal meaning much more wonga that the council gains interest on sooner.

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Just by the way, I have been looking at the Council Ombudsman site at http://www.lgo.org.uk/complaints-about-council-tax/

In which it says

Nor can we look at what goes on in court

and

But we can consider other complaints about the way the council has dealt with your council tax.

So I am asking does the team think I could go this route if my letters in the complaints procedure don't work ?

[outlawlgo]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

See what they come back with to this Freedom of Information request:

Composition of Council Tax Summons costs



It kind of proves that the Council just make up the figures and the Magistrates' court goes along with it.

An amazing response from the council. It completely dodged the issue surrounding how it once considered 68% of costs were "summons costs" but now almost all (96%) have been front loaded.

The calculation ("letters and calculation"), has evidently been produced with it in mind that the court would have no understanding of the figure, or else not wanting to understand them.

Unbelievably the council claims that only 39% of the summons and liability order costs raised are ever paid by the debtor and the recovery costs are taken as 38% of its Council Tax budget, based on the ratio of what the council consider recovery notices sent out each year to the total notices.

Quite obviously they got that wrong as the figure would be 9% made up of 5% summonses and 4% liability order, so substituting more realistic figures into its calculation (giving them the benefit of the doubt that only 39% costs are paid), it would compute something like the following:

Council Tax budget – £3,595,700.94

Ratio of Recovery Action – 9%

Cost of Recovery – £323,613.08

Magistrates' Court fee – £3

Estimated number of summonses issued – 29,379

Total estimated cost of Magistrates' Court fee – £88,134

Total cost of recovery = £411,747.08

The summons and liability orders based on the council's logic are weighted so that the summons represents 5/9ths of total cost of recovery whereas the liability order around 4/9ths

£411,747.08 x 5/9 = £228,748.38
£411,747.08 x 4/9 = £182,998.70

For the individual summons and liability order costs based on the council's figures we have:

£228,748.38 / 11,457 summons = £19.96
£182,998.70 / 10,055 liability orders = £18.20