I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

This maybe going off track but is relevant in as much as it could raise an awkward question For Lambeth Council.

I notice your council have split the proportion of summons and liability order costs in a way which maximises the income generated.

Currently the split works so that 96% of the total costs (£127) is charged for sending the automated summons (£122), whereas the work you would think more involved, i.e., making the application at the magistrates' court represents only 4% of the total (£5).

You could ask the council to explain how it justifies splitting the costs so disproportionately, especially when in 2004/05 the summons costs were only 65% of the total and the extra for obtaining the liability order was 35%.

I know why they have done this but it would be entertaining hearing the council's answer.

Anything that makes the backsides of the elected representatives and council officers of London Borough of Lambeth twtich or brings forth a fanfare of trouser trumpets must be worth a go.

[NorthTower]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Just as a matter of interest, which charges do you wish to challenge?

I wondered could I challenge the size of the £127, on the grounds that I had already given them details of my low income, about two thirds of JSA, which they ignored, I could not afford the fares to the court, and their paperwork did not come from a court anyway, it came from Lambeth ?

[wales01man]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Interested to hear the thoughts of others but I would think challenging the 127 in fees would fail

[labman]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

OP: Please totally ignore the Land of the Free website, it is absolute drivel and very dangerous if people believe it. Keep your council fully informed of your situation, pay whatever you can, and you really need to involve both your local Councillor and your MP to help with your issue. You can find who they are and their contact details here:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

BBottle: You state earlier there is evidence emerging about the HRA etc... in this area. I do believe technically you could be correct, practically we'd need a precedent setting court case. In the meantime do you have any links to this evidence please so we can weigh it up for ourselves? Thanks.

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

OP: Please totally ignore the Land of the Free website, it is absolute drivel and very dangerous if people believe it. Keep your council fully informed of your situation, pay whatever you can, and you really need to involve both your local Councillor and your MP to help with your issue. You can find who they are and their contact details here:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/

BBottle: You state earlier there is evidence emerging about the HRA etc... in this area. I do believe technically you could be correct, practically we'd need a precedent setting court case. In the meantime do you have any links to this evidence please so we can weigh it up for ourselves? Thanks.

Cases that have gone before the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg have gone there because the UK courts have not be able to come to a decision as to whether something complained about is compliant with human rights law or not. The Rome Convention is International Law and binding on all 47 countries that have signed it. As such, International Law supersedes the domestic law of countries that have signed any Convention or Treaty. The UK has been subject to the Rome Convention since signing it in 1953. Incorporating it into domestic law is a condition of membership of the European Union which owes its existence to the Treaty of Rome 1932. Enacting the Human Rights Act 1998 was purely a move to comply with the UK's membership of the EU.

I am attaching Schedule 1, Human Rights Act 1998 which contains the Convention rights. Please remember that they have been in force since 1953, though, successive UK governments have kept quiet about them hoping that the people would not find out and start asking awkward questions, which people are now doing and challenging what politicians and public authorities are doing.

[labman]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

I know all of the above BB. However, earlier you stated:

Any chance of scanning and posting up the papers you received, please? Evidence is emerging that the collection of Council Tax is riddled with fraud and corruption and Liability Order hearings breach Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights (aka The Rome Convention). In short, the way in which local authorities and magistrates courts conduct the process is almost certainly unlawful.

Is it possible to have links to the actual evidence which you say is emerging please? Thanks. :beagle:

[wales01man]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

If we assume that Councils make £50 from each liability order how many do the issue each year and what is the total that this indirect form of profit for Councils Then we can see why it will be a long hard road to get it stopped if its so unlawful and the legislation has been around since??? why has it not been stopped

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Item 5 on Page 3 should answer your question. It breaches an individual's right to a fair hearing without any shadow of doubt.

[bizzybob]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

Item 5 on Page 3 should answer your question. It breaches an individual's right to a fair hearing without any shadow of doubt.

5. Procedures prior to the hearing The Court and its staff ehould not give the impresslon thiat the Council is in charge of the process.

from the PDF, the implication is that the council is in charge, therefore there is a prima facie breach of due process.

[labman]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

If that is the entirety of the evidence which is emerging, I would not be getting my hopes unduly. Does the notion regarding the Rome Convention and the HRA have its roots in the UK Column or Brian Gerrish? If not, from where does it originate?

What I'm trying to ascertain is whether it is a 'big' issue in terms of there being a real, plausible possibility of something happening with it, or whether it is something you have heard of due to your geographical location sharing much with the above?

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

5. Procedures prior to the hearing The Court and its staff ehould not give the impresslon thiat the Council is in charge of the process.

from the PDF, the implication is that the council is in charge, therefore there is a prima facie breach of due process.

Star Chamber. Totally unlawful. I have serious doubts as to the validity of Liability Orders obtained in this way and the lawfulness of enforcement action pursued under the LO. The civil enforcement industry needs to wake up before it goes hurtling over the edge and into an abyss of no return.

[outlawlgo]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

5. Procedures prior to the hearing The Court and its staff ehould not give the impresslon thiat the Council is in charge of the process.

from the PDF, the implication is that the council is in charge, therefore there is a prima facie breach of due process.

The MoJ is avoiding answering this: ....rrupt procedures at Grimsby Magistrates' court, posted on the Whatdotheyknow site.

[wales01man]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

THey bwillignore it a good little earner for the Councils Pays 220 k plus a year CEOs salaries

[bizzybob]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

The MoJ is avoiding answering this: ....rrupt procedures at Grimsby Magistrates' court, posted on the Whatdotheyknow site.

I would say MOJ are cacking it and will avoid answering as they know they are buggered if they do.

[bluebottle]

Re: I am on a very low income and have council tax arrears...

All formal complaints involving the courts should be sent to -

Correspondence, Complaints and Litigation Unit
H.M. Courts & Tribunals Service
102 Petty France
London
SW1H 9AJ

Quote relevant Articles from the Rome Convention, i.e. Articles 6, 17 and 18, plus Section 6, Human Rights Act 1998. Courts are subject to both.

I fear you may well be spot-on in your analysis of the MoJ cacking themselves, BB, as they are ultimately responsible for what goes on within the courts. I am of the view they know it will only be a matter of time before there is mass dissent amongst the population and their complicity will become public knowledge. However, I have a feeling Greasy Grayling will jump ship before the crap hits the fan big-time.