guarantor problems

[stevemLS]

Re: guarantor problems

[MENTION=39710]des8[/MENTION] would be interested to see an authority on the guarantee question, I just can see how it is a contract for the sale or supply of goods or services.

However, perfectly happy to be corrected.

and snap with the AST.

[des8]

Re: guarantor problems

I wonder if Para 3 of this guarantee contract ("The Guarantor will also be liable for any increase in rent agreed between the landlord ...... and the tenant in accordance with the provisions of clause 2 of this agreement of guarantee") is in breach of the UTCCR.
Schedule 2 i & j

(i)

irrevocably binding the consumer to terms with which he had no real opportunity of becoming acquainted before the conclusion of the contract;

(j)

enabling the seller or supplier to alter the terms of the contract unilaterally without a valid reason which is specified in the contract;


Cleverer peeps than I need to look at it, but if the rent has been increased without his knowledge, could he be held to guarantee the increase? It might reduce the amount owing.
And has the landlord no responsibility to keep the call on the guarantor to a minimum by timely following up the eviction notice?

[des8]

Re: guarantor problems

@des8 would be interested to see an authority on the guarantee question, I just can see how it is a contract for the sale or supply of goods or services.

However, perfectly happy to be corrected.

and snap with the AST.

As I see it the goods/ service supplied are/is the tenancy (this guarantee document actually refers to the tenancy as the consideration, hence confirming it is a contract).
It appears not to have been signed as a deed and so can only be a contract.
Contracts are subject to UTCCR,

Like you I'm sailing uncharted waters and was hoping other more knowledgeable would jump in

[Crazy council]

Re: guarantor problems

I agree with [MENTION=48758]stevemLS[/MENTION] on this. remember the guarantor part, is an assurety against an asset ( the property and rent ), in respect of a tenancy ( tenant ). not a term or condition itself, just an asurty for any liability the tenant leaves.

Hence, as long as the form itself could not be considered unreasonable. ( an d they are usually fairly simple ), The agent or LL claims against the Guarantor, and the guarantor is supposed to claim against the tenant he laid the assurety for. Unless the guarantor considered the claim over charged, his redress would be with the tenant, not the agent.

remember when your considering terms in an AST the housing act and case law pretty good and well argued already

is there anything that he can do to get of the agreement or to stop this. or where can he go from here? someone please help me and my family.

You can try limit your further liaility.

contact the agents or LL by email and reorded delivery. Inform them that you no longer wish to be garuntor and require them to get another garuntor for the tenant. Ask them to do an assesment of the property ( for damage ect ) and to provide you that asap. You will owe the rent and damages up to that time at least

There is no right to remove yourself untill the end of the tenancy, but you have a better chance of limiting any further liability if you formally withdraw and get an up to date assessment of the property

[hayleylouise]

Re: guarantor problems

The only chink I can see in this agreement is as follows.
Firstly it is a contract, and not a deed.
At the end the document states it needs to be signed and dated and the agreement ratified.
i) it is only signed by your father
ii) the signature is undated (although the first line of the agreement dates the document)
iii)there is no indication that the contract has been ratified

Whether or not at would allow repudiation would need other's input.

Was there a copy of the tenancy agreement attached to the guarantee agreement ?

the two pages i attached are the only pages my father was given

[des8]

Re: guarantor problems

The Guarantee agreement in para 1 refers to "the agreement attached hereto".
If that agreement was not attached to the original, or was not seen by your father when signing the original, AND IF HE CAN PROVE THAT POSITION, a clever lawyer MIGHT be able to get him off the hook.

However proving it might be difficult, and the lawyer's costs would be horrendous if it went to court

[wales01man]

Re: guarantor problems

Time to pay up maybe and learn an expensive lesson The idea of a Guarantor is that they pay when the person they are guaranteeing for does not it probably is a valid legal document needs a good Solicitor to defend it if it goes to court and as Des says that can cost

[dan_1207]

Re: guarantor problems

Morning!

Sorry for not checking in, I was stuck in a rather dull lecture on conveyancing all morning yesterday with a full afternoon of interviews with the FCA in the afternoon - hardly thrilling.

I've read through all of the above and have seen the contract signed by your father. What I suggest is based on the following assumptions, so please do correct me if any of them are wrong:

1. Assume the defaulting tenant signed a fixed term assured shorthold tenancy and that that tenancy is valid (i.e. signed, attested if necessary, and contains all relevant terms.)

2. Assume your father has received a request for payment, but I would like to see confirmation from you as to how this payment was demanded from him (if at all), what threats (if any) were made, and any other information surrounding the agent's contact with your father, please.)

My first issue, given that agreement is a contract and not a deed, is that there is no consideration. The law will say that if your father signs a contract, consideration must exist (i.e. in simple terms, you both receive something, typically money for a service.) I can't see here what the consideration is for your father. Likely, the agent's only argument will be that the tenancy itself is a consideration (but that's not to your father). Can you confirm both the date of the tenancy agreement, and the date of the guarantor contract (this is important)? A nominal payment of £1 by the landlord to your father will be sufficient to satisfy this requirement, but I can't see anything that could reasonably be argued as consideration in this regard, mentioned in the contract anyway. Having signed it as a deed skirts this requirement, but the document falls short of requirements needed to be a deed in any event.

[dan_1207]

Re: guarantor problems

I wonder if Para 3 of this guarantee contract ("The Guarantor will also be liable for any increase in rent agreed between the landlord ...... and the tenant in accordance with the provisions of clause 2 of this agreement of guarantee") is in breach of the UTCCR.
Schedule 2 i & j

(i)

irrevocably binding the consumer to terms with which he had no real opportunity of becoming acquainted before the conclusion of the contract;

(j)

enabling the seller or supplier to alter the terms of the contract unilaterally without a valid reason which is specified in the contract;


Cleverer peeps than I need to look at it, but if the rent has been increased without his knowledge, could he be held to guarantee the increase? It might reduce the amount owing.
And has the landlord no responsibility to keep the call on the guarantor to a minimum by timely following up the eviction notice?

This simply isn't allowed. The guarantor guarantees the tenancy agreement and all terms in it. Any changes, or signing of a new tenancy, will make the guarantor's contract a nullity. If the rent is increased, then OP's father will be required to sign a new guarantee contract.