Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

[Guest]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Hi PlanB and pt2537,
Thanks for the focus. Have just rung the court, and they are sending N161 (appeal form), fee remission (again) and list of approved transcribers. You have to pay your own transcribing fee, so it's unlikely I'll do that.

What threw the case slightly, is landlord clarified by e-mail to judge that he wishes to sell the property. This story has changed twice now.

I've now rung the local landlord who wanted to buy the property back in Nov 2012 to see if he's still interested. He was then looking to keep me on as a tenant.

It's also clear to me that in many ways you're better off telling your story in brief, plain English than being too clever with the law, as judges are going to make their own decisions and know the law better than you will (hopefully).

[pt2537]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Hi PlanB and pt2537,
Thanks for the focus. Have just rung the court, and they are sending N161 (appeal form), fee remission (again) and list of approved transcribers. You have to pay your own transcribing fee, so it's unlikely I'll do that.

What threw the case slightly, is landlord clarified by e-mail to judge that he wishes to sell the property. This story has changed twice now.

I've now rung the local landlord who wanted to buy the property back in Nov 2012 to see if he's still interested. He was then looking to keep me on as a tenant.

It's also clear to me that in many ways you're better off telling your story in brief, plain English than being too clever with the law, as judges are going to make their own decisions and know the law better than you will (hopefully).

Im sorry to say, if there is no transcript then no court will entertain an appeal unless there is an adequate note of the judgment.

There was a small amount of funding available i seem to recall however for things like this where a party is in hardship

Maybe the transcribers , we use Wordwave or Possib for our cases, they may be able to advise where the funding can be sought

[Guest]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Great! That delays it considerably!
Because what I'm hearing in my mind, is I want to buy the flat...
I just need to stay with the confidence to manifest that decision and its consequences!
(The local landlord who wanted to buy last Nov hasn't returned my call today).

Oh, I apologise for my rude remark earlier, about Wikipedia, pt. I was stressed.
There were some dubious authorities quoted there I saw straight afterwards!
Some c**p about WEIGHTS and MEASURES

LOL
:tea:

YOUR CASES??? Good God.

[Guest]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

I've drafted a letter to my landlord saying I'm interested in buying.
Not sure when I'll have the courage to send it.
That's because he knows I'm on housing benefit.
However, I have a great domain name to build an international clairvoyant agency.
If I could just keep out of court cases, I could do some business here.
It used to be Paltalk, then Facebook, then Legal Beagles, recently COURTS.
Oh. my. life.

[PlanB]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Maybe hold off sending that letter to your landord until after the weekend and allow yourself time to convalesce from the hearing in case you change your mind when you look back at what happened in court. You were all fired up to appeal yesterday. I spent a day in court recently and it knocked me for six even though I won. Check out what you need to do to lodge an appeal and more importantly whether you've got any grounds. Then armed with the facts you can make an informed decision. At least with the appeal filed you ought to be able to prevent any eviction if you get this current judgment stayed as PT has suggested.

Buying the property from your landlord would be a win-win situation but I can only guess that he/she has spent a lot on legal costs to get this far with the case and that could become an issue although not an insurmountable one. Even if you file an appeal it would be months and months until the hearing and knowing that it's in the pipeline could become a useful bargaining tool for the sale/purchase price :nod: I doubt your landlord wants to throw more money at lawyers if it can be avoided. I also doubt he would like the idea that he still can't evict you even if he wanted to once/if that judgment is stayed :nono:

Looking back through your thread I can see you are currently paying the rent and there are no longer arrears (have I got that right?). In which case is there another reason why your Landlord wants you to leave the property or is there an amical deal to be done if the legal fighting stops :fencing:

[Guest]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Hi PlanB,

Thanks for the message - really appreciated. I'm not sending the letter to landlord yet. I've arranged a telephone consult first thing Monday morning, with a Businesslink person, to look for an investor.

The court hearing knocked me for six, also - I'm glad I'm not the only one! Landlord has spent only £175 fee on costs.

The court will be asked to consider my human right to "respect" again. For example, the landlord could have responded to my written complaints. On deciding to sell, the landlord could have written to me, to inform me.

My right to "respect" for my private life, home and work could be vindicated by the court, by:-

- making a declaratory judgment on the balance of monies from the tenancy, and
- allowing me time to absorb the news the landlord is selling after all, and
- allowing me reasonable time to make arrangements to (try to) find a suitable investor.

I may include articles:-
- 1 (Pt II): peaceful enjoyment of my possessions,
- 17: prohibition of abuse of rights - no State, group or person has any right to engage in any activity or perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of my rights and freedoms - viz: landlord and court v my private life, home, work, possessions (and see next post), and
- 18: limitation on use of restrictions on rights: landlord's peaceful enjoyment of his possessions cannot be used
to completely over-ride my right to respect for my private life, work, home, possessions, and
- possibly article 6: independent tribunal - lower courts are bound by precedents - although this may not apply is I'm only looking for time to find an investor, and
- possibly also article 3: degrading treatment: complaints ignored by landlord + summary eviction with no right of redress: various possession order dates in freezing weather conditions, police refused to help if court order awarded with no proper consideration of my human rights, despite their oath to uphold human rights.
Maybe:
- Magna Carta: free customs: living my life in this property and area; I cannot be 'taken' (ha ha!).

No rent arrears - s48, PlanB, come on! Rent was withheld for breach of contract, after 30 formal written complaints were ignored over 2 years 5 months. The landlord is making no claim for money at all.

Your animation is so funny, because when they strike each other, they miss every time! How very true!

Oh, and today I was awarded Legal Help through Community Legal Advice, the online service. They will be assisting on the appeal, as I hope our friends in this forum may be.

Bring It On

[Guest]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

OMG OMG OMGGGODDDDDDDDDDDD

Article 17 Prohibition of abuse of rights
Nothing in this Convention may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein or at their limitation to a greater extent than is provided for in the Convention.

Helloooooooooooo implied repeal of s21 HA 88

[Guest]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you on....Were you advised against filing a counterclaim if you've suffered as a result of the disrepair to your property if the council failed to address the problems? It may not be too late to do that even now but you'll need help to prepare it...Good representation can make all the difference to an outcome.

I see you've not had much luck getting help from a solicitor even though you may be entitled to Legal Aid if you're on a low or no wage (that includes self-employed). Have you tried getting free help through LawWorks http://www.lawworks.org.uk/index.php?cID=10354 They normally need 4 weeks notice to source a volunteer solicitor in your area but they can sometimes step in when it's an emergency. They may also be able to get you a barrister from the Bar Pro Bono Unit to represent you at the hearing http://www.barprobono.org.uk/overview.html Shelter and/or the CAB can refer you to the BPU too.

Good luck :hug:

Thanks PlanB, now I'm getting legal help for my appeal, I will ask if they can help me do a money claim possibly (breach of contract for repairs, etc).

[Guest]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Does anyone know the quick answer to how to stay proceedings pending legal aid claim?
I asked the court for maximum extension of time to do this - and they? - gave me nothing,
despite the fact that the possession order awarded is "unlawful".
Thanks.

The DJ told me at later hearing there is no legal aid for defending possession proceedings. That's undoubtedly why he offered me no extension of time.

[Guest]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

With the greatest of respect, it is not wise to rely on Wikipedia for legal authorities or legal assistance.

there is a truly exceptional barrister in human rights law who i am aware of, based over at Crown Office Row, the chap is called Adam Wagner, he may be able to assist. Good luck

Can anyone explain anything wrong with the entry at Wikipedia on implied repeal?
A UK judge "has" to allow a new piece of statute prevail over a previous statute where they conflict, right?

Had a look at COR - I see nothing about public access, legal aid or pro bono.
The pupillage scheme looks up my alley, though

[Guest]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Today I wrote to my landlord to see if we negotiate for me to buy my home.
I will be looking at the list of transcribers sent by the court, tommorrow.

[PlanB]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

This is interesting and possibly helpful to you

There's an appeal coming up where the tenant is arguing that his rent paid in advance (it always is) was in fact a deposit and therefore it should have been protected in one of the appropriate schemes. He argues that since it wasn't protected the Landlord's section 21 Notice is invalid. A DJ agreed with him and he won his case at country court level and had the possession claim dismissed. It was then overturned on appeal (Brighton County Court) and now it's off to round 3 in the COA:

http://www.landlordtoday.co.uk/news_...ice-is-deposit

Sorry about those dreadful ads all over that link but I haven't had time to source you a better one Give the case a Google Johnson vs Old

[Guest]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

This is interesting and possibly helpful to you

There's an appeal coming up where the tenant is arguing that his rent paid in advance (it always is) was in fact a deposit and therefore it should have been protected in one of the appropriate schemes. He argues that since it wasn't protected the Landlord's section 21 Notice is invalid. A DJ agreed with him and he won his case at country court level and had the possession claim dismissed. It was then overturned on appeal (Brighton County Court) and now it's off to round 3 in the COA:

http://www.landlordtoday.co.uk/news_...ice-is-deposit

Sorry about those dreadful ads all over that link but I haven't had time to source you a better one Give the case a Google Johnson vs Old

Rent in advance is a deposit?
Good morning PlanB, very good morning!
This is an excellent argument - I will use it in my appeal, which I am looking at again this morning.

Can anyone tell me whether a new argument can be used in an appeal?
At this point, Community Legal Advice have not contacted me as promised, so there's still no legal help, although I'm going to call them shortly.

I will still be representing my original arguments, also, in the light of the 'new' circumstances (landlord wanting to sell).

[Guest]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Holding Deposits
An ancillary point to the one above:
"The outcome of the case (Johnson v Old) could also give implied or actual guidance as to the question of whether 'holding deposits' paid by tenants could also be deposits for the purposes of protection law".
This is interesting. Yesterday I spoke to an agency who wanted a 'non-refundable holding deposit'. They told me the property needed complete clean throughout, new carpets, and all new appliances. Supposing (as I've experienced before) they didn't do all that work, and expected you to move in, anyway?
Hello...............

#humanrights4tenants #RESPECT

[pt2537]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

New arguments can be introduced on appeal, provided the underlying case supports it, if you look at Ian Karl Brandon v American Express the Court of Appeal did not take issue with such, but if you need to pull in new evidence that is where you may get caught out. The test for new evidence is in Ladd v Marshall and it is a tricky one to over come sometimes.