Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

[MissFM]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Just to clarify for other readers, none of this apply to this case, which is about an ABUSIVE landlord-agent-tenant relationship of nearly 3 years, the right to evict for NO REASON, the incompatibility of that law with HUMAN RIGHTS, in an unprecedented case in private tenancies. This case, or any other similar case, COULD change the law that gives that 'right' to evict for no reason, via a declaration of incompatibility.

Sorry ChristianPassy that was a specific response to Flaming Parrot's post re HB with absolutely no disrespect intended to you, your plight or indeed to Flaming Parrot. Apologies to both if offence caused.

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

No offence, but unless you're highly experienced in the matters presented, could you please stay off this thread? I am a LIP in danger of LOSING HER HOME and not in need of time wasting, not really.

Thanks.

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

You could always speak to them hun, they may have a suggestion.

Tuttsi:
No - they're experts in consumer credit.
Maybe for my Welcome Case.

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Maybe you should be seeking an adjournment of the hearing (not an indefinite 'stay') until you have your Legal Aid granted "in the interests of justice". If you have proof that you've made your public funding application and it's been acknowledged by the LSC you could ask the other side's solicitors (on the assumption that they have instructed a firm otherwise ask the Claimant direct) in writing/email (so you have a paper trail for the court) if they will agree to an adjournment, and tell them that if they don't you will be making application to the court for an order for this and you will also be seeking your legal costs to be paid if the Claimant is deemed to have been unreasonable in not agreeing to your request.

You can also ask for an adjournment at the hearing but that's leaving it a bit late and DJs often get cross and refuse because they've read the background to the case over breakfast and want to get on with it.

If you've got a barrister to represent you he/she should be able to help you with this next step. Did you get counsel through the BPBU because they're usually very fired up to win and will explain everything you need to know about the paperwork for applications etc.

A lot will depend on the finances involved in this case - you've not said how much the arrears are and whether they are increasing daily from non-payment of your rent at the moment. The court must be seen to be unbiased and if the Landlord could go bankrupt, or the property repossessed by a lender (if it has a mortgage on it) because he/she is losing money from your non-payment of rent and those arrears then the court may take a negative view on any further delay so as not to prejudice the Claimant.

1. I already asked for:-
(a) an adjournment, by e-mail, before Xmas
(b) an order of MAXIMUM EXTENSION OF TIME on APPLICATION NOTICE on 2nd Jan 13 - ?
I'm seriously not sure if they've even read it? Hearing was set in 15 days from receipt of notice today.
Thanks for your route.

2. No, nothing to do with the BPBU.

3. As I said above, full rent is being paid. Rent was withheld for serial breaches of contract and harassment over 2.25 years. As you may be aware, tenants have NO ENFORCEABLE RIGHTS to sue landlords, because of the risk of retaliatory eviction. That is what the whole case is about.

4. Hopping over to CLS, but subscribed to this thread.

5. No legal aid housing solicitors in the area, and those nearest (next towns) wouldn't take it, due to my learning of defence at last minute - same day possession awarded. Also thanks to Shelter and First stop telling me there was no defence (actually, my bullet-point defence is 7 pages - technical and public law grounds).

Please, readers, do not bombard me with irrelevant points. Only one pair of hands here!

[PlanB]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Does anyone know the quick answer to how to stay proceedings pending legal aid claim?
I asked the court for maximum extension of time to do this - and they? - gave me nothing,
despite the fact that the possession order awarded is "unlawful".
Thanks.
P.S. I have the best barrister bar "NONE" offering to help me. No solicitor to link me to him.

Maybe you should be seeking an adjournment of the hearing (not an indefinite 'stay') until you have your Legal Aid granted "in the interests of justice". If you have proof that you've made your public funding application and it's been acknowledged by the LSC you could ask the other side's solicitors (on the assumption that they have instructed a firm otherwise ask the Claimant direct) in writing/email (so you have a paper trail for the court) if they will agree to an adjournment, and tell them that if they don't agree voluntarily you will be making application to the court for an order for this and you will also be seeking your legal costs to be paid if the Claimant is deemed to have been unreasonable in not agreeing to your request.

You can also ask for an adjournment at the hearing but that's leaving it a bit late and DJs often get cross and refuse because they've read the background to the case over breakfast and want to get on with it.

If you've got a barrister to represent you he/she should be able to help you with this next step. Did you get counsel through the BPBU because they're usually very fired up to win and will explain everything you need to know about the paperwork for applications etc.

A lot will depend on the finances involved in this case - you've not said how much the arrears are and whether they are increasing daily from non-payment of your rent at the moment. The court must be seen to be unbiased and if the Landlord could go bankrupt, or the property repossessed by a lender (if it has a mortgage on it) because he/she is losing money from your non-payment of rent and those arrears then the court may take a negative view on any further delay so as not to prejudice the Claimant.

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Tuttsi:
No - they're experts in consumer credit.
Maybe for my Welcome Case.

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Evening FP!

One of the reasons that HB is difficult for landlords is to do with insurance (sometimes HB is specifically excluded). This can sometimes be resolved by direct and honest communication between all parties! Many landlords actually prefer HB as it can mean that the rent (or the proportion supplied by HB) will be paid on time. As the landlord would usually have to provide info for the tenant to get the HB and it is often sent directly to the landlord it might not be feasible to follow the above route.

IMHO the landlord/tenant relationship doesn't have to be one of conflict - both sides (ideally) want a quiet life, a secure, well-kept property and a fair rent - that elusive win-win relationship.

:behindsofa: FMx

Just to clarify for other readers, none of this apply to this case, which is about an ABUSIVE landlord-agent-tenant relationship of nearly 3 years, the right to evict for NO REASON, the incompatibility of that law with HUMAN RIGHTS, in an unprecedented case in private tenancies. This case, or any other similar case, COULD change the law that gives that 'right' to evict for no reason, via a declaration of incompatibility.

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Have you tried Watsons Solicitors?

http://www.watsonssolicitors.co.uk/

[MissFM]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Unfortunately it can be hard to find private rented accommodation when you are on HB, most landlords and letting agents shun HB claimants. Once you are settled in you can easily claim HB without informing the landlord/agent, who will be happy as long as you pay your rent, :okay: but moving whilst on HB can be tricky.

Evening FP!

One of the reasons that HB is difficult for landlords is to do with insurance (sometimes HB is specifically excluded). This can sometimes be resolved by direct and honest communication between all parties! Many landlords actually prefer HB as it can mean that the rent (or the proportion supplied by HB) will be paid on time. As the landlord would usually have to provide info for the tenant to get the HB and it is often sent directly to the landlord it might not be feasible to follow the above route.

IMHO the landlord/tenant relationship doesn't have to be one of conflict - both sides (ideally) want a quiet life, a secure, well-kept property and a fair rent - that elusive win-win relationship.

:behindsofa: FMx

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Just realised I can apply for legal aid at Community Legal Advice.
Opened an account there before Christmas.

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Thanks for the above points.
Does anyone know the quick answer to how to stay proceedings pending legal aid claim?
I asked the court for maximum extension of time to do this - and they? - gave me nothing,
despite the fact that the possession order awarded is "unlawful".
Thanks.
P.S. I have the best barrister bar "NONE" offering to help me. No solicitor to link me to him.
Landlord is being paid full rent, court knows this.
How much more?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Unfortunately it can be hard to find private rented accommodation when you are on HB, most landlords and letting agents shun HB claimants. Once you are settled in you can easily claim HB without informing the landlord/agent, who will be happy as long as you pay your rent, :okay: but moving whilst on HB can be tricky.

[PlanB]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Maybe the question you should ask yourself is do you really want to stay in this particular property or are you fighting this battle on a matter of principle? If you're entitled to Housing Benefit is there any reason why you wouldn't want to move elsewhere and live happily ever after to avoid all the stress and expense of this case - especially if the property is suffering from disrepair?

Normally if you're evicted for rent arrears you would be deemed *Intentionally Homeless* by your local authority and they would not have a legal duty to re-house you. But you should still be entitled to Housing Benefit to cover your rent in private accommodation. You've not said whether anyone else is living in the property with you which could be relevant to the advice you're being given.

Obviously the current Landlord could pursue you through the court for those rent arrears even if you move out, but he/she may be happy to cut their losses to save on legal costs. Likewise it's possible that you could be responsible for the other side's costs if you lose this case so keep that in mind too.

If your case is referred to the Bar Pro Bono Unit you will hopefully be allocated a barrister keen to make his/her name on this interesting case. Because if a judge rules that tenants can stay put despite section 21 protection for a Landlord, then the private rented sector would be up in arms and an appeal could be in the pipeline.

You seem to have received a lot of support from various resources so I hope all goes well with your fight in court on the 23rd :fencing:

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Message for mercury-the-messenger
Thanks to this anonymous friend who pointed out to me that in counter claim for damages, the landlord (claimant) has vicarious liability for the actions of the agent. This simplifies the presentation greatly. How do you bring a third party into a two-party case, I was asking myself this morning? - oh lord. Messenger, you must have heard me.

Later, I will post all the orders, etc, I applied for in the application notice. Meantime, I must finish it before the hearing.

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

1. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you on 23rd January. Will you be making the DJ aware of this Supreme Court Case which embraced Article 8 which he should respect and not ignore : http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKSC/2011/8.html

2. Were you advised against filing a counterclaim if you've suffered as a result of the disrepair to your property if the council failed to address the problems? It may not be too late to do that even now but you'll need help to prepare it.

3. I presume you're a LIP so when you get to the court on 23rd ask to see the Duty Solicitor who can be your advocate at the hearing. It's a free service provided by most County Courts. DJs like talking to lawyers more than they like talking to LIPs. Good representation can make all the difference to an outcome.

4. I see you've not had much luck getting help from a solicitor even though you may be entitled to Legal Aid if you're on a low or no wage (that includes self-employed).

5. Have you tried getting free help through LawWorks http://www.lawworks.org.uk/index.php?cID=10354 They normally need 4 weeks notice to source a volunteer solicitor in your area but they can sometimes step in when it's an emergency.

6. They may also be able to get you a barrister from the Bar Pro Bono Unit to represent you at the hearing http://www.barprobono.org.uk/overview.html Shelter and/or the CAB can refer you to the BPU too.

7. Good luck :hug:

Hi Plan B, 1. thanks so much for your support from the beginning. Yes, the precedent for article 8 was set in Manchester v Pinnock in Nov 2010, followed by Hounslow v Powell in Feb 2011.

If either the Heathrow squatters, (15/16th Jan 2013, Court of Appeal) or I succeed, this/these will be the first case/s of article 8 succeeding over mandatory possession orders in private tenancies.

2. I knew about counter claims around 26 years ago when I did some legal training in college. I've started the claim for repair and other issues. Please see message to follow.

3. At the time of writing I'm a LIP. Thanks so much for the advice re. the duty solicitor - really much appreciated. I was aware Shelter are sometimes available - maybe that's who you mean.

4. I couldn't get legal aid until I got a hearing. Despite the fact that I'm eligible, which I know full well.

FOR EVERYONE: YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO A HEARING IN A SO-CALLED 'NO DEFENCE' / MANDATORY POSSESSION/EVICTION GROUNDS CASE UNDER SCHEDULE 1, PART II, ARTICLE 6, HUMAN RIGHTS ACT 1998 - see here. ONE WOMAN WHO LOST HER HOME WITH NO CONSIDERATION OF HER HUMAN RIGHTS WON £4,000 FROM A HIGHER COURT - see here

5. Yes, I tried LawWorks before. Today I rang them and they said they could only help me by if I went through the usual application procedure, which takes 4 weeks. My hearing is in 15 days. The lady I spoke to couldn't comment on whether I'd get an adjournment. I already asked for maximum extension of time to apply for legal aid, and it wasn't granted by the court. Considering their possession order is unlawful - read illegal - that's pretty ripe.

6. Yes, I'm aware of the Bar Pro Bono unit, having done nothing for the last 41 days or so but prepare my defence, counter claim and other points in application notice.

I had been offered help by a leading QC, but had no solicitor, and the QC does not do direct access work. I am eligible for legal aid, but not able to apply until today, when the court finally offered a hearing.

7. Thankyou very much, the country needs a change.