Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

OMG OMG OMGGGODDDDDDDDDDDD

Article 17 Prohibition of abuse of rights
Nothing in this Convention may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein or at their limitation to a greater extent than is provided for in the Convention.

Helloooooooooooo implied repeal of s21 HA 88

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Hi PlanB,

Thanks for the message - really appreciated. I'm not sending the letter to landlord yet. I've arranged a telephone consult first thing Monday morning, with a Businesslink person, to look for an investor.

The court hearing knocked me for six, also - I'm glad I'm not the only one! Landlord has spent only £175 fee on costs.

The court will be asked to consider my human right to "respect" again. For example, the landlord could have responded to my written complaints. On deciding to sell, the landlord could have written to me, to inform me.

My right to "respect" for my private life, home and work could be vindicated by the court, by:-

- making a declaratory judgment on the balance of monies from the tenancy, and
- allowing me time to absorb the news the landlord is selling after all, and
- allowing me reasonable time to make arrangements to (try to) find a suitable investor.

I may include articles:-
- 1 (Pt II): peaceful enjoyment of my possessions,
- 17: prohibition of abuse of rights - no State, group or person has any right to engage in any activity or perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of my rights and freedoms - viz: landlord and court v my private life, home, work, possessions (and see next post), and
- 18: limitation on use of restrictions on rights: landlord's peaceful enjoyment of his possessions cannot be used
to completely over-ride my right to respect for my private life, work, home, possessions, and
- possibly article 6: independent tribunal - lower courts are bound by precedents - although this may not apply is I'm only looking for time to find an investor, and
- possibly also article 3: degrading treatment: complaints ignored by landlord + summary eviction with no right of redress: various possession order dates in freezing weather conditions, police refused to help if court order awarded with no proper consideration of my human rights, despite their oath to uphold human rights.
Maybe:
- Magna Carta: free customs: living my life in this property and area; I cannot be 'taken' (ha ha!).

No rent arrears - s48, PlanB, come on! Rent was withheld for breach of contract, after 30 formal written complaints were ignored over 2 years 5 months. The landlord is making no claim for money at all.

Your animation is so funny, because when they strike each other, they miss every time! How very true!

Oh, and today I was awarded Legal Help through Community Legal Advice, the online service. They will be assisting on the appeal, as I hope our friends in this forum may be.

Bring It On

[PlanB]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Maybe hold off sending that letter to your landord until after the weekend and allow yourself time to convalesce from the hearing in case you change your mind when you look back at what happened in court. You were all fired up to appeal yesterday. I spent a day in court recently and it knocked me for six even though I won. Check out what you need to do to lodge an appeal and more importantly whether you've got any grounds. Then armed with the facts you can make an informed decision. At least with the appeal filed you ought to be able to prevent any eviction if you get this current judgment stayed as PT has suggested.

Buying the property from your landlord would be a win-win situation but I can only guess that he/she has spent a lot on legal costs to get this far with the case and that could become an issue although not an insurmountable one. Even if you file an appeal it would be months and months until the hearing and knowing that it's in the pipeline could become a useful bargaining tool for the sale/purchase price :nod: I doubt your landlord wants to throw more money at lawyers if it can be avoided. I also doubt he would like the idea that he still can't evict you even if he wanted to once/if that judgment is stayed :nono:

Looking back through your thread I can see you are currently paying the rent and there are no longer arrears (have I got that right?). In which case is there another reason why your Landlord wants you to leave the property or is there an amical deal to be done if the legal fighting stops :fencing:

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

I've drafted a letter to my landlord saying I'm interested in buying.
Not sure when I'll have the courage to send it.
That's because he knows I'm on housing benefit.
However, I have a great domain name to build an international clairvoyant agency.
If I could just keep out of court cases, I could do some business here.
It used to be Paltalk, then Facebook, then Legal Beagles, recently COURTS.
Oh. my. life.

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Great! That delays it considerably!
Because what I'm hearing in my mind, is I want to buy the flat...
I just need to stay with the confidence to manifest that decision and its consequences!
(The local landlord who wanted to buy last Nov hasn't returned my call today).

Oh, I apologise for my rude remark earlier, about Wikipedia, pt. I was stressed.
There were some dubious authorities quoted there I saw straight afterwards!
Some c**p about WEIGHTS and MEASURES

LOL
:tea:

YOUR CASES??? Good God.

[pt2537]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Hi PlanB and pt2537,
Thanks for the focus. Have just rung the court, and they are sending N161 (appeal form), fee remission (again) and list of approved transcribers. You have to pay your own transcribing fee, so it's unlikely I'll do that.

What threw the case slightly, is landlord clarified by e-mail to judge that he wishes to sell the property. This story has changed twice now.

I've now rung the local landlord who wanted to buy the property back in Nov 2012 to see if he's still interested. He was then looking to keep me on as a tenant.

It's also clear to me that in many ways you're better off telling your story in brief, plain English than being too clever with the law, as judges are going to make their own decisions and know the law better than you will (hopefully).

Im sorry to say, if there is no transcript then no court will entertain an appeal unless there is an adequate note of the judgment.

There was a small amount of funding available i seem to recall however for things like this where a party is in hardship

Maybe the transcribers , we use Wordwave or Possib for our cases, they may be able to advise where the funding can be sought

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Hi PlanB and pt2537,
Thanks for the focus. Have just rung the court, and they are sending N161 (appeal form), fee remission (again) and list of approved transcribers. You have to pay your own transcribing fee, so it's unlikely I'll do that.

What threw the case slightly, is landlord clarified by e-mail to judge that he wishes to sell the property. This story has changed twice now.

I've now rung the local landlord who wanted to buy the property back in Nov 2012 to see if he's still interested. He was then looking to keep me on as a tenant.

It's also clear to me that in many ways you're better off telling your story in brief, plain English than being too clever with the law, as judges are going to make their own decisions and know the law better than you will (hopefully).

[PlanB]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Dont forget to make an application within the appellants notice for a stay on the lower courts order while you are appealling, its often overlooked but very important to stop enforcement of the court order

^^^^ This point in PT's post leapt out at me. You must get a stay on yesterday's judgment to prevent your Landlord from getting an Eviction Warrant. As you said in an earlier post, you don't want to be out in the snow :smow:

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

I find it odd that the DJ didn't formally respond to your section 48 argument (we PM'd each other about this 11th hour addition before the hearing). Doesn't he have a duty to deal with each and every legal issue you raise PT knows more about reasons for getting an Appeal granted and won.

Maybe it's time this case got 'kicked upstairs'

Hi my friend,
Again, this is repossession on mandatory grounds - no reasons need be given.
No idea if judges need to respond to everything.
But if rent arrears weren't an issue, I guess it isn't necessary.
What he did in an hour was pretty good given there's no way (he said) to turn over these orders.

Thankyou about pt, noted.
Kicked upstairs, yes, well...we'll see...........
There's comes a point when private tenants may be regarded as 'human'...we'll see...
LOL
Apparently, only social tenants, terrorists and criminals are 'human'.
Whereas, presumably, private tenants are alien...which is reasonable... <titter> ...
AH HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

:2w32gd1:

[PlanB]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

He also mentioned it 'odd' that upon judgement you can ask for permission to appeal.
If the judge says yes, you can appeal.
If the judge says no, you can appeal.

He then told me that if I continued to ask permission to appeal, he was likely to say no.
Therefore, did I want to think it over?
I said I would.
:bedjump:

I find it odd that the DJ didn't formally respond to your section 48 argument (we PM'd each other about this 11th hour addition before the hearing). Doesn't he have a duty to deal with each and every legal issue you raise PT knows more about reasons for getting an Appeal granted and won.

Maybe it's time this case got 'kicked upstairs'

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

It's noteworthy that under article 6 HRA 98, one is entitled to 'fair and public hearing within a reasonable time by an independent and impartial tribunal'.

It could be said that there's only one of those in the UK - the Supreme Court.

All lower courts are bound by higher decisions, and therefore have no independence whatsoever.
Impartiality is founded on independence, therefore it cannot be exercised.
Therefore, no lower court in the UK meets the requirements of the Human Rights Act.

The DJ who took my hearing was not able to overturn the possession order, not matter what he thought.
And he did mention being on the edge of his seat when these cases first came out.

He also mentioned it 'odd' that upon judgement you can ask for permission to appeal.
If the judge says yes, you can appeal.
If the judge says no, you can appeal.

He then told me that if I continued to ask permission to appeal, he was likely to say no.
Therefore, did I want to think it over?
I said I would.
:bedjump:

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

These were roughly the DJ's arguments on the human rights points:-

- s21(4)(a) HA 88 and article 8 not incompatible
- Magna Carta cannot be impliedly repealed since 2002 by s21(4)(a) HA 88: DJ couldn't see argument
- proportionality and legitimate aim: doesn't apply to private landlords
- personal circumstances: these are only considered in social cases
- possession order not justifiable: anyone who considered the law would say it was a mandatory situation

- my arguments claimed HRA 98 applies solely because I am human
- and I could not be discriminated against as opposed to other types of tenants, because the court is a public body
- and various articles of HRA 98 impliedly repealed s21(4)(a) HA 88 - in particular 3 (degrading treatment), 8 (home), 14 (discrimination).

I drew a schedule of disrepairs over 2 years 9 months for judge, and produced 30 written complaints to agent, all ignored. Also 14 other pieces of correspondence all ignored. DJ said there was no breach of contract by claimant, despite persistent denials of essential services, delays to repairs and refusals to repair, verbal threats of eviction, written threat to tenancy within first 6 weeks with no investigation (complaints received: neighbours wanted to continue partying outside every other day) but several police visits at my behest, written accusations (verbal abuse, bullying, causing a letting agent to burst into tears), verbal accusation (malicious damage - after 2 years of enforced overseeing of virtual renovation of appliances throughout property, repeated repair visits).

I pointed out I could not access civil remedies or exert my human rights, due to perceived right to evict for no reason, but this cannot be done, since through the Magna Carta, all law must be applied. This was the argument the DJ 'could not see'.

DJ commented I could take the government to court for serial loss of home under mandatory possession orders.

All technical defences were refuted in similar fashion. Maybe I will add these on receiving transcript.

September 12: claimant told me he wanted to sell property.
November 12: I found local landlord who wanted to buy and keep me as tenant. Agent told him it wasn't for sale.
January 13: claimant told court he just wanted to sell his property.

DJ seemed angry at one point and asked if I felt the claimant had any ownership rights.
I presume this was an attempt to blame me for claimant not selling, which I wasn't aware he wanted to.
Presumably, claimant would just put it on the market - I would have no rights.

Note to PlanB: after a pointless discussion that rent arrears remained stable, I pointed out there were no rent arrears since rent was withheld (due to breach of contract) with no s48 LTA 87 notice previously served. DJ: no response.

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

Why thirteen days?

If you are going to appeal you will need the transcript of the hearing, it is often overlooked but the CPR allows for a party to apply to extend the time for filing the appellants notice until such time as they have the transcript, especially where the person was a Litigant in Person.

So this will buy you time for appealing also.

It is unlikely the judge would refuse extending the time in such circumstances, in the appeals i have done there has never been a refusal.

I say that but it occurs to me you may have a note of the judgment as you said you had a QC friend or something if i recall, if there is a adequate note of the judgment then you are going to be straight into the Grouds of Appeal and Appellants notice etc seeking permission.

Dont forget to make an application within the appellants notice for a stay on the lower courts order while you are appealling, its often overlooked but very important to stop enforcement of the court order

HEY - THANKS!!!! Was considering the transcript!

:fireside:

[pt2537]

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

THE RESULTS OF MY HEARING
I was awarded none of my requests at the hearing yesterday.
I will probably be appealing the human rights defences in the next 13 days.

Why thirteen days?

If you are going to appeal you will need the transcript of the hearing, it is often overlooked but the CPR allows for a party to apply to extend the time for filing the appellants notice until such time as they have the transcript, especially where the person was a Litigant in Person.

So this will buy you time for appealing also.

It is unlikely the judge would refuse extending the time in such circumstances, in the appeals i have done there has never been a refusal.

I say that but it occurs to me you may have a note of the judgment as you said you had a QC friend or something if i recall, if there is a adequate note of the judgment then you are going to be straight into the Grouds of Appeal and Appellants notice etc seeking permission.

Dont forget to make an application within the appellants notice for a stay on the lower courts order while you are appealling, its often overlooked but very important to stop enforcement of the court order

Re: Private tenants can use human rights to prevent s21 eviction

THE RESULTS OF MY HEARING
I was awarded none of my requests at the hearing yesterday.
I will probably be appealing the human rights defences in the next 13 days.