are Santander mortgage arrears charges and legal fees fair? FOS say they are!

[tifo]

I made a claim for a refund of arrears and (some) legal fees from Santander for my mortgage account. They refused to offer a refund and said their charges are fair and reasonable.

I passed the complaint to the FOS and it has not been passed to an Adjudicator.

The Adjudicator has asked many questions in relation to whether the bank treated me fairly whilst I was (am) in arrears and said he cannot look at the arrears charges/fees as he considers them to be fair at £35.00 a month (on top the interest they charge on these as part of the monthly mortgage payment on the whole balance) and quoted the 'test case' as one of his reasons. He said the FSA saying charges should cover admin fees is for them to regulate by and the FOS do not set market prices for any bank charges.

This means my complaint will not be investigated as i want it to be and I have around £5,000 of charges/fees including interest with more being added on every month.

What can i do as the Adjudicator has already made his mind up before even talking to the bank? Can i ask for a change of Adjudicator as i already know what decision he is going to make (that the charges are fair)?

[The Debt Star]

Re: are Santander mortgage arrears charges and legal fees fair? FOS say they are!

I think you can ask for one of the Ombudsmen to look at the matter if you are not happy with the Adjudicator's decision.Ask for an official decision by an ombudsman. The ombudsman's decision is final however & you are free to go to court instead, if you wish.

I would also try complaining to Consumer Direct, who will refer it to the trading Standards Office local to Santander's Head Office in the UK. You should also contact the OFT, telling them the FOS won't help; my experience of the OFT is very negative because they won't look at individual cases.

[tifo]

Re: are Santander mortgage arrears charges and legal fees fair? FOS say they are!

my experience of the OFT is very negative because they won't look at individual cases.

you can ask for one of the Ombudsmen to look at the matter if you are not happy with the Adjudicator's decision.

Mine's the same but the Adjudicator said i can go to the FSA or OFT if either of those say the charges are unfair but he thinks they're fair so the FOS will not look at market rates, whatever they are, because most lenders charge between £25 - £80 so my £35 is a reasonable estimate of their extra admins costs.

I'm afraid the Ombudsman will uphold the Adjudicator decision (they always do) so the core of my complaint will never get looked at.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
On another note, I have asked the bank for Terms and Conditions of the mortgage account which they've sent me (I still have to look keenly through them) but said they don't have a copy of the application form (which they should keep for 6 years after the account is closed under anti money laundering laws).

They also refuse to tell me if the mortgage account was sold at any time.

Where do i stand with this?

[leclerc]

Re: are Santander mortgage arrears charges and legal fees fair? FOS say they are!

I made a claim for a refund of arrears and (some) legal fees from Santander for my mortgage account. They refused to offer a refund and said their charges are fair and reasonable.
I think the legal fees are not claimable but the arrears fees(which I read below) should be. I would make the FOS aware that the OFT did not cover charges on mortgage account arrears and ONLY covered charges based on Personal Current Accounts.
I passed the complaint to the FOS and it has not been passed to an Adjudicator.

The Adjudicator has asked many questions in relation to whether the bank treated me fairly whilst I was (am) in arrears and said he cannot look at the arrears charges/fees as he considers them to be fair at £35.00 a month (on top the interest they charge on these as part of the monthly mortgage payment on the whole balance) and quoted the 'test case' as one of his reasons.
That is based on the TCF principles ie whether they treated you fairly when you were in arrears, ie did they look at whether you were in hardship and try to give help or advice, etc, etc,
He said the FSA saying charges should cover admin fees is for them to regulate by and the FOS do not set market prices for any bank charges.
Which report did they say this about? I know they did on credit cards and suggested it MIGHT cover other areas which in time lead to the OFT test case which covered the PCA's.
This means my complaint will not be investigated as i want it to be and I have around £5,000 of charges/fees including interest with more being added on every month.
I don't think legal fees can be reclaimed but arrears charges can be. Were they separated or not in the complaint?
What can i do as the Adjudicator has already made his mind up before even talking to the bank? Can i ask for a change of Adjudicator as i already know what decision he is going to make (that the charges are fair)?

I think you still need to clarify why the adjudicator is stating about the OFT test case which did not look into fees on mortgage arrears but on Personal Current Accounts(PCA's). I would perhaps add info with regards to TCF as well(Treating Customers Fairly).

[tifo]

Re: are Santander mortgage arrears charges and legal fees fair? FOS say they are!

I think you still need to clarify why the adjudicator is stating about the OFT test case which did not look into fees on mortgage arrears but on Personal Current Accounts(PCA's).

He is saying the test case was relevant to ALL charges/fees even though it was about returned item charges. As it's not a "free in credit" account, I don't know how any of the test case arguments about the charges would apply.

He is saying the charges comply with the FSA MCOB 12.4.1R as they are a reasonable estimate of how much it costs the bank to admin my arrears account so he has no reason to ask them for any info as £35 is a fair fee.

We had a long chat and he is implying I am misinformed about the test case and its relevance to all default charges.

[Amethyst]

Re: are Santander mortgage arrears charges and legal fees fair? FOS say they are!

They are penalty charges - ie chargeable on you breaching the terms of the agreement (to pay on time), entirely different thing to bank charges, and much more akin to late payment charges on credit cards.

And how does he know they are proportional to their costs of administering the breach anyway.

If you have brandon v amex anywhere the judge said similar to the FOS man about credit card charges.

The OFT v Banks judgment had nothing to do with default charges - the point was that they werent default charges. Very worrying when the FOS get this wrong.


This bit tho

He is saying the charges comply with the FSA MCOB 12.4.1R as they are a reasonable estimate of how much it costs the bank to admin my arrears account so he has no reason to ask them for any info as £35 is a fair fee.

is a different issue to the test case, and if he had come up with just that as his reasoning it might have been fair enough. Sounds like he added the test case on to back himself up but is simply wrong.

[tifo]

Re: are Santander mortgage arrears charges and legal fees fair? FOS say they are!

Yes, i now have a copy of the judgement. I can't see the part about the FOS and the final judgement is that the charges are NOT a penalty so are enforceable. This case doesn't seem to help me.

As the Adjudicator seems to have made up his mind and the Ombudsman is likely to uphold the decision, what options are open to me?

[The Debt Star]

Re: are Santander mortgage arrears charges and legal fees fair? FOS say they are!

I would still go back to the FOS with a strongly worded letter along the lines of posts 4 + 5 and insist the Ombudsman (not the adjudicator) look at it afresh. Then complain about the level of service to the Independent Assessor at the FOS http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...aints_a12.html

[Amethyst]

Re: are Santander mortgage arrears charges and legal fees fair? FOS say they are!

Yes, i now have a copy of the judgement. I can't see the part about the FOS and the final judgement is that the charges are NOT a penalty so are enforceable. This case doesn't seem to help me.

Sorry I wasn't very clear, I was meaning it was a similar view as the ombudsman, which is worrying.

[100mel]

Re: are Santander mortgage arrears charges and legal fees fair? FOS say they are!

I have had almost exactly the same response from FOS adjudicator in my case (£40 a time) - adjudicator says that this cost reflects the cost to Santander - is it possible to issue court claim for these costs and if so what would be appropriate wording

[pompeyfaith]

Re: are Santander mortgage arrears charges and legal fees fair? FOS say they are!

I would be writing to the mortgage co and ask them to justify those charges and prove that they are fair and reasonable and are a true reflection of there costs PF

[100mel]

Re: are Santander mortgage arrears charges and legal fees fair? FOS say they are!

I've already done that and received no response whatsoever - that was why I went to FOS

Do I have any other options?

[leclerc]

Re: are Santander mortgage arrears charges and legal fees fair? FOS say they are!

I've already done that and received no response whatsoever - that was why I went to FOS

Do I have any other options?

Ask the FOS if they received the actual costs associated with your breach since you have asked LloydsTSB who said Foxtrot Oscar to you.....