This could have a very major effect on repossessions

[LuggerBugs]

Re: This could have a very major effect on repossessions

So if securitisation HAS taken place, a SAR should show it up?

How else would someone know if their mortgage has been securitised?????

It's still all a bit over my head.

[CYNthesys]

Re: This could have a very major effect on repossessions

The securitization stuff is over my head as well, but I can assure you these mortgages were packaged up and securitised.
Barclays & BOS dont own the mortgages, but still manage them on the bond holders behalf

[LuggerBugs]

Re: This could have a very major effect on repossessions

I'm lost. But it all sounds very dodgy to me. :suspicious:

[righty]

Re: This could have a very major effect on repossessions

It is very dodgy & It's only come to light because of the current crisis.

Yes a SAR should reveal who has the mortgage & no as previously explained, thanks to the government & the regulators they don't have to issue a 'notice of assignment'............ However there are some (me included) who think this may be unlawful & a breach by the government agencies involved of the HRA

[Curlyben]

Re: This could have a very major effect on repossessions

Surely to attempt enforcement in their own name there must be an absolute assignment compliant with Law of Property s136 ?!
Or have they been so blinded by greed that something as simple as a legally binding document is beneath them.

[righty]

Re: This could have a very major effect on repossessions

Curly YES & that's the problem.............for the lenders

Read my original post & in particular where the American Judge castigates the lender for NOT doing the paperwork throughout the securitization of the debt

[calamity jane]

Re: This could have a very major effect on repossessions

Saw a commercial on television tonight about REDC, an American co specialising in auctions of repossessed properties.



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In The Guardian today;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009...ioneers-london

[righty]

Re: This could have a very major effect on repossessions

Yup I mention them in my earlier post. They're coming here cos they're getting their butts kicked in the states

[enaid]

Re: This could have a very major effect on repossessions

Saw a commercial on television tonight about REDC, an American co specialising in auctions of repossessed properties.



------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
In The Guardian today;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2009/mar/14/repossesions-redc-us-

auctioneers-london

They have been advertising on channel 5 for over a week now.

[grimbell]

Re: This could have a very major effect on repossessions

Syn

A way of finding out who has the mortgage is to check bank statements and see who the DD goes to. In my case I have a mort with SPML but my statements showed payments going to SPS05-3plc (southern pacific securities 05-3plc) then check on companies house as to who they are. Another way is to check the house insurance and see who the mort company asked to be named as an interested party.

[scoobydoo]

Re: This could have a very major effect on repossessions

Do we have any update on this ?

I have heard OTR of a couple of potential cases where it may be mentioned by the borrower in a possession case to see what the reaction is . Also that there may be discrepancies at Land registry as to who holds the charge?

[Amethyst]

Re: This could have a very major effect on repossessions

I read an article about this yesterday ummmm will find it.. think is was the credit crunch document from the government.


Legal Beagles *Link only available to VIP*

The document on there, I think page 199 ish, covers some views on securitization and this not knowing who actually owns the loans etc as well as the land regsitry.

[Amethyst]

Re: This could have a very major effect on repossessions

Here Carmel Butler's view....
(202)

OPENESS AND HONESTY
14. There are no bad debts on the banks books. And if there is any bad debt, the amount is
de minimis. A primary purpose of a securitisation is: to remove the credit risk from the
bank’s books. The bank, under a ‘true sale’ will sell all its rights and title in the mortgages
to the SPV and the SPV will in return pay the bank cash for the mortgage assets. This
plain truth has remained elusive because under the terms of the true sale contract, the
bank and the SPVs have unlawfully agreed to keep the transaction concealed from the
borrower and, from H.M. Land Registry. Thus giving the false appearance to the world
that the banks still own the mortgages.
15. Two sleights-of hand are at play in this manoeuvre. One is the legal ruse, the other the
auditor ruse. This is not to suggest that the professions have conspired, they are each
compartmentalised and each are generally unaware of the combined effect.


16. First, the legal ruse. The law provides mortgagees with a statutory power to transfer a
legal charge.43 It is under these statutory provisions that the banks exercise their right to
assign the mortgages to the SPVs. In a contract of sale that provides for a disposition44 of
an interest in land, the legal title will be conveyed immediately from the seller to the
buyer45 on the completion date. There can be no doubt that on completion, the buyer has
acquired the legal title, but there will inevitably be a “registration gap” between the
conveyance date on which the buyer acquired the legal title and the date on which his
legal title is registered at H.M. Land Registry. During this registration gap, the law
provides that the buyer’s title: “does not operate at law until the relevant registration
requirements are met”.46
17. This is where the legal ruse comes into play. It is this “registration gap” that the SPV
unlawfully exploits in order to conceal its ownership and control of the mortgages.
Under the Land Registration Act 2002 (“LRA 2002”), the transferee47 of a registered
charge is required to register at H.M. Land Registry, its ownership of the mortgage that it
purchased.48 Therefore, it is a legal requirement that the SPV register its proprietorship
of the mortgage at H.M. Land Registry. Whilst the law implicitly permits the registration
gap as a matter of pragmatism, the law also implicitly mandates that the registration
requirements are to be observed expeditiously. Nonetheless, in contumacious disregard
for its legal duty to comply with the registration requirements of the LRA 2002, the
contract of sale expressly provides that the SPV will not register the transfer at H.M. Land
Registry indeed, the contract provides that notice of the transfer is to be concealed from
the borrowers and H.M. Land Registry and a fortiori concealed from the world49.
18. The suppression and concealment of this information from H.M. Land Registry is a
criminal offence50, and in furtherance of this offence51, the SPV’s legal title to the
mortgages is also concealed from the county courts and the Government. The Banks
remain registered as the proprietor of the mortgages and accordingly all interested parties
are deceived by this concealment with one exception. The SPV does inform its investors
that the bank sold its legal title to the SPV (to whom, the right to register the legal title to
the mortgages is important). Consequently, the bank appears to be the legal owner, but it
is not.

it goes on....need to read the document (its not the government approved version)


Carmel Butler is

3. I am British Citizen resident in the UK and a qualified lawyer admitted to practice in New
York, U.S.A. I have an LLB Laws from the London School of Economics and a JD (Juris
Doctor) from Columbia University, New York. I practiced securities law at Sidley Austin
LLP New York office from September 2006 to December 2007. Whilst at Sidley Austin I
worked on various Structured Finance transactions such as mortgage securitisations,
CDOs and various derivatives. I am also a consumer of a mortgage product that has been
securitised. Consequently, as both an ex-practitioner of securitisations and a consumer
subjected to a securitisation, the intention is to focus on consumer issues that arise from
mortgage securitisations, its central causal role in the banking crisis and its detrimental
effect on the economy and public purse.

[righty]

Re: This could have a very major effect on repossessions

There's a lengthy discussion, of which I'm a part, going on otr - The threads are huge & there's to much to explain here but yes there are some who intend to try & defeat repo by using the argument 'not being the true owner does the claimant have the right to litigate'
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Also the Treasury Committee have issued a report which is almost word for word the same as Carmel Butlers submissions - they also entreat the FSA to insist that the true owners register with the LR as required by law

[Amethyst]

Re: This could have a very major effect on repossessions

You have a copy of that report righty?