Problems with neighbour - bad building, trespass, intimidation, property damage

[nw0307]

Hi there, do I have to add a particulars of loss/damage at the end of my counterclaim? If so, how do I break the figure down?

[des8]

Probably a good idea.. lucky one of us is reading & understanding this
You could after para 11 of counter claim add :
SCHEDULE OF LOSS:
Loss of enjoyment............£x amount
Harassment £Xamount
Claim fee .........................£115
Total £3,000 (or as the court sees fit)

How you split it is a bit academic but I would suggest £2000 for the harassment .

Your counter claim should be on a sheet separate from your defence

[nw0307]

Probably a good idea.. lucky one of us is reading & understanding this
You could after para 11 of counter claim add :
SCHEDULE OF LOSS:
Loss of enjoyment............£x amount
Harassment £Xamount
Claim fee .........................£115
Total £3,000 (or as the court sees fit)

How you split it is a bit academic but I would suggest £2000 for the harassment .

Your counter claim should be on a sheet separate from your defence

that's great, thank you. I have a feeling that when they see the counterclaim, and that they've wrongly done the claim as two people, the guy will throw his wife under the bus and make her take the case as claimant because most of the counterclaim is due to his behaviour. Most of the correspondence is from Mr & Mrs xxxxx but it's really his email. Sometimes he forgets to sign both of them and it's just him. I've not had a single email from her so I can't imagine a judge letting her take case and that is unfair on my defence and cc.

[des8]

Well you could just delete the part drawing attention to the use of the wrong form.
It was just there to wind them up as it could easily be corrected, so no great deal

[nw0307]

Hi there

I've decided to do the counter claim as a separate claim at a later date and that way I can put much more of the harassment in, much like your first suggestion. I think when I defend this one with the brilliant defence you helped with, I can hopefully win or pay the small amount I offered. I will have that on my side as he's currently threatening me with more litigation via his solicitor, with regards to alleged breaches of the lease that are completely absurd and without a shred of evidence. With this in mind, I can use these constant threats as harassment and possible vexatious claims.

I've added a couple more points to the defence, as he didn't comply with pre action protocol by not issuing a letter before action with any sum total on it yet expected me to pay in 14 days lol. His solicitor sent the email to the wrong person, then when sending it to me, forgot to add attachments, yet these attachments still didn't actually have a breakdown of what I'm supposed to owe!

The online money claim response field is very basic. I presume I can just fill in form N9B and add my defence as an attachment and email them to the court?

[des8]

I think somewhere on that online form is a place to advise that you are sending your defence separately, which you should be able to do as a pdf attached to an email. Phone the court to confirm.

Regarding your decision not to counter claim but to make a separate claim later:
I would still consider counterclaiming for distress, inconvenience and loss of enjoyment.(and leave the harassment till later, altho' warning a person of possible court action is not necessarily harassment)
The amounts award if successful are low (£1000 per annum) so if you claim for £300 your fees are only £35, but it enables you to describe what he put you through.
Not exactly a rebuttal of his claim , but might just sway the judge in your direction when deciding any award

[nw0307]

Hiya folks

Just a quick update. I did as you suggested and added a smaller counterclaim for the distress aspect of the case. I printed off the defence, signed and scanned it and sent it via email as a pdf along with the form pdf. And also requested to pay for my counter claim by debit card so I believe they have to phone you to do it. I hope I did it all okay. There is very little in terms of help as to sending the documents correctly on their site to be honest. If the status of the online portal doesn't change in the next day or so, I'll have to call them.

[nw0307]

Hi

Just a quick update. My defence and counterclaim was filed and I received a court questionnaire by post as the case has gone beyond the online moneyclaims system.

I've sent the questionnaire to the court. I've just received a copy of the neighbours questionnaire and they had not only tried to defend the counterclaim (which I knew they would), but they've actually now added a counterclaim of their own and demanding more money by adding new invoices which were from the beginning of November, well before any claim was started by them. It seems they're just wanting to delay, and confuse and gaslight with more arguments. Can a claimant who receives a defence/counterclaim, make yet another claim after their initial claim when it's not even relevant to the initial claim? And do I then defend this 'counterclaim'? At this rate, we'll be going on forever! I'm sure I read that a claimant can't just keep adding to their initial claim. I've never seen these invoices before and more importantly, he's trying to claim for scaffolding which he used for his own personal renovations, and also trying to claim for his own roof insulation!

as ever, any advice would be appreciated. I really am dealing with loonies here.

[des8]

Are you sure this is not an additional claim.
The claimant has to apply to the court for permission to file an additional claim

tagging jaguarsuk who is more au fait than I with court procedures

[jaguarsuk]

So looking at CPR Part 20, the Defendant can Counter Claim and even make 'Additional Claims,' but there is no right for the Claimant to make a 'Counter Counter Claim.'

The correct procedure if he wants to add to his claim is that he should apply to amend his Particulars of Claim (with or without consent) paying the applicable fee and consent that Defendant upon receipt of the amended PoC be granted leave to amend their Defence.

In regards the Counter Claim the Clamant becomes a Part 20 Defendant and should file a 'Defence to Counter Claim.'

The Defendant upon receipt of the Defence to Counter Claim is entitled should he wish to file a 'Reply to Defence to Counter Claim.'

His failure to follow procedure should be dealt with by making an application to the court using form N244 asking the court to Strike out the 'Defence to Counter Claim and Counter Counter Claim' (or whatever the Claimant has entitled it), set a date for the Claimant to file his Defence to Counter Claim if the court allows and the cost of the application be paid by the Claimant to the Defendant.

The cost of the application is £275.

Before applying I would speak with the court and see if they have accepted this document into the claim or whether they intend to put it in front of a judge to get an order to reject it with setting a new date for them to file correctly.

It may be the court is going to act of it's own volition and you don't need to bother with the all the paperwork plus have the cost of sorting out their lack of knowledge.

If they're not I'm afraid you'll have to apply.

[jaguarsuk]

Are you sure this is not an additional claim.
The claimant has to apply to the court for permission to file an additional claim

tagging jaguarsuk who is more au fait than I with court procedures

If it were a separate CoA he could file a new claim, but because it’s additional issues arising from the same CoA already in the court he has to amend his Particulars of Claim and then the Defendant be allowed to amend their defence accordingly.

[nw0307]

So looking at CPR Part 20, the Defendant can Counter Claim and even make 'Additional Claims,' but there is no right for the Claimant to make a 'Counter Counter Claim.'

The correct procedure if he wants to add to his claim is that he should apply to amend his Particulars of Claim (with or without consent) paying the applicable fee and consent that Defendant upon receipt of the amended PoC be granted leave to amend their Defence.

In regards the Counter Claim the Clamant becomes a Part 20 Defendant and should file a 'Defence to Counter Claim.'

The Defendant upon receipt of the Defence to Counter Claim is entitled should he wish to file a 'Reply to Defence to Counter Claim.'

His failure to follow procedure should be dealt with by making an application to the court using form N244 asking the court to Strike out the 'Defence to Counter Claim and Counter Counter Claim' (or whatever the Claimant has entitled it), set a date for the Claimant to file his Defence to Counter Claim if the court allows and the cost of the application be paid by the Claimant to the Defendant.

The cost of the application is £275.

Before applying I would speak with the court and see if they have accepted this document into the claim or whether they intend to put it in front of a judge to get an order to reject it with setting a new date for them to file correctly.

It may be the court is going to act of it's own volition and you don't need to bother with the all the paperwork plus have the cost of sorting out their lack of knowledge.

If they're not I'm afraid you'll have to apply.

Hi Jaguar.

Thank you for your reply. It's definitely a counterclaim he's tried to do using form N9B and he's actually paid his £35 counterclaim fee lol!. This was only sent on Thursday to the court. I spoke to the court on Friday to actually ask them about this. They had yet to receive it but the lady said in all her time receiving documents, she'd never heard of a claimant counterclaiming a counterclaim!

He's still applying as two people, him and his wife on the forms. Again, I was unsure this is allowed and I have mentioned this in my defence statement. They like to bully together as a couple.

His defence is set out rather muddled too, not like mine which I did with the help of Des. This all reminds me of how he handled correspondence previously with me and my solicitor. Doing nothing properly and barraging us with email after email to prolong the dispute. It's a form of attention seeking and trying to confuse the situation. I can't imagine the court putting up with his antics.

I received on Saturday, from the court, mediation hearing date for 12th May which the Judge considered on 2nd March. So he won't have seen these extra documents from the Claimants. I'm unsure whether to make the N244 application to strike out their defence and counterclaim or wait until the resolution hearing.

[jaguarsuk]

Hi Jaguar.

Thank you for your reply. It's definitely a counterclaim he's tried to do using form N9B and he's actually paid his £35 counterclaim fee lol!. This was only sent on Thursday to the court. I spoke to the court on Friday to actually ask them about this. They had yet to receive it but the lady said in all her time receiving documents, she'd never heard of a claimant counterclaiming a counterclaim!

He's still applying as two people, him and his wife on the forms. Again, I was unsure this is allowed and I have mentioned this in my defence statement. They like to bully together as a couple.

His defence is set out rather muddled too, not like mine which I did with the help of Des. This all reminds me of how he handled correspondence previously with me and my solicitor. Doing nothing properly and barraging us with email after email to prolong the dispute. It's a form of attention seeking and trying to confuse the situation. I can't imagine the court putting up with his antics.

I received on Saturday, from the court, mediation hearing date for 12th May which the Judge considered on 2nd March. So he won't have seen these extra documents from the Claimants. I'm unsure whether to make the N244 application to strike out their defence and counterclaim or wait until the resolution hearing.

I haven't read back through your thread due to length, just read the posts tagging me in and the one preceding it.

Give it a couple of days for the court to receive the documents and then call back to ask them what they're going to do if anything?

If they are just going to enter it in the claim then I would apply to have it struck out as in process no such document can exist. You should ask for costs if you do apply and then the Claimant might then realise he can't just do as he pleases in the way he did with the solicitor.

I doubt they'll enter it in the claim though, I doubt any clerk of the court will have seen that before, therefore they'll put it in frony of a judge. Rule of thumb for Officers of the Court is if in doubt about anything, throw it in front a judge to let them decide.

[nw0307]

I haven't read back through your thread due to length, just read the posts tagging me in and the one preceding it.

Give it a couple of days for the court to receive the documents and then call back to ask them what they're going to do if anything?

If they are just going to enter it in the claim then I would apply to have it struck out as in process no such document can exist. You should ask for costs if you do apply and then the Claimant might then realise he can't just do as he pleases in the way he did with the solicitor.

I doubt they'll enter it in the claim though, I doubt any clerk of the court will have seen that before, therefore they'll put it in frony of a judge. Rule of thumb for Officers of the Court is if in doubt about anything, throw it in front a judge to let them decide.

Hi Jaguar

Thanks for the reply. I've just been reading all the documents thoroughly and it seems that the Claimant sent his questionnaire, and the defence and counterclaim early last week, much the same time as I sent my questionnaire. On receipt of these, the Court has allocated the case to Small Claims Track (preliminary hearing) and also said mediation should be considered and gave details to organise this. It has given me instructions for what I need to do with regards to sending documents etc. It's a telephone hearing. I initially assumed that this was a mediation session.

I'm wondering if, because my neighbours didn't follow pre-action protocol correctly, didn't issue the claim correctly, and now have tried to add a counterclaim on top of their own defence the Judge is contemplating striking out the claim or some of it? It does mention that might be one of the outcomes of this preliminary hearing. Looking online, it says:
In some situations, a judge might not set the final hearing date at the allocation stage. Instead the judge might decide to hold a preliminary hearing. This usually only happens if:

• the case requires special or unusual steps to be taken that the judge wants to explain to either party
• the judge feels that either party has no real prospect of winning the case and wants to close the case as quickly as possible to save everyone time and money, or
• the person who has made the claim does not show any reasonable grounds for bringing the claim, or the defendant?s defence does not show any reasonable grounds for defending it.

Your Notice of Allocation will tell you if you need to attend a preliminary hearing.

Do you have any insight to these prelim hearings at all?

thanks

[jaguarsuk]

Yes, so the court are acing of their own volition to this, as I said the court clerks when irregularities arise throw it in front of a judge and the judge has set a hearing to try to figure out what the Claimant is playing at.

If I were you I would submit a Witness Statement for the hearing to get your objections in, being:

CPR Part 20 allows the Defendant opportunity to Counterclaim or make 'Additional Claims,' but you are unable to see either in Part 20 or elsewhere that a Part 20 Defendant would be entitled to make any other claim.

That you believe procedurally the Claimant ought to apply to the court to amend his Particulars of Claim.

And in that scenario if the court granted amendment the Defendant be granted leave to amend their Defence.

Then something like 'I respectfully request an order that the 'Defence to Counterclaim and Counter Counterclaim' (use whatever title the Claimant put on the document) submitted by the Part 20 Defendant be struck out and that the court invite the Part 20 Defendant to submit a 'Defence to Counterclaim.'

'Further I also respectfully request in that order it is noted that should either party wish to amend their Statement of Case that they make the proper application with the proper fee.'

The reason for wording it that way is as a Litigant in Person you don't want to be telling a judge their job, but you still need to point out the stupidity.

Entitle it 'Preliminary Hearing Witness Statement.'

Serve a copy on the Claimant/Part 20 Defendant and a file a copy with the court.

I'd be surprised if you'll have to say very much at all in the preliminary hearing.

You might not think it, but if this judge ends up staying with the claim to the final hearing you are looking like the credible and capable one right now.