Consent order signed by third party solicitor and client not paid can I sue solicitor

[Openlaw15]

Re: Consent order signed by third party solicitor and client not paid can I sue solic

You are fighting a losing battle unless you can pursue the Directors the Company no doubt has no money for you or anyone.

The company may now have been started under a different name, perhaps the Op has stated this in the thread at some point, if so it would explain his tenacity in not wanting to let the issue go. If that were me I simply would not have trusted a solicitor with a consent order and even if third party solicitor and I were to have signed it, I wouldn't have waited 3 months. At the 2 week stage I'd think someone was trying to pull a fast one! i think this is just going to have to be put down to experience and not be so trusting of solicitors etc.

[Amethyst]

Re: Consent order signed by third party solicitor and client not paid can I sue solic

Just going back a bit, and something I don't thing we'd realised before, this is a consumer who paid for a service from a company - she didn't receive the service and the company liquidated. If she paid by credit card and it was over £100 then if she paid by credit card then the credit card provider is liable ( under sec 75)

[nemesis45]

Re: Consent order signed by third party solicitor and client not paid can I sue solic

Just going back a bit, and something I don't thing we'd realised before, this is a consumer who paid for a service from a company - she didn't receive the service and the company liquidated. If she paid by credit card and it was over £100 then if she paid by credit card then the credit card provider is liable ( under sec 75)

Good point I'd missed that as well.

Certainly more chance than pursuing a solicitor.

nrm

[Openlaw15]

Re: Consent order signed by third party solicitor and client not paid can I sue solic

Just going back a bit, and something I don't thing we'd realised before, this is a consumer who paid for a service from a company - she didn't receive the service and the company liquidated. If she paid by credit card and it was over £100 then if she paid by credit card then the credit card provider is liable ( under sec 75)

This is the problem the important facts have to be teased out. Are services now under the new Consumer Act 2015? It's not known whether the OP is a consumer running a business or a consumer not in the course of business per se. As far am aware the particular services have not been mentioned by the Op. It's like on the charge thread the Op began by arguing a prenupt situation but what was embedded (when we could tease out the main facts), and important was the realisation of a property affected by interim charge, which was something we could help with.

[Amethyst]

Re: Consent order signed by third party solicitor and client not paid can I sue solic

Consumer Rights Act won't apply in this case as the agreement was pre October 2015.

[Openlaw15]

Re: Consent order signed by third party solicitor and client not paid can I sue solic

The next possible solution is to sue the former director of the company as maybe 'he' instructed the solicitor to settle with having no intention of paying as might have already been thinking to close the company ..... this is a breach of rules as he had to act fairly with all creditors. My name wasn't even in the list of creditors, I found out later and had to send 'proof of debt etc'. So even though the director twice applied to set aside judgment, gave witness statements etc, he still forgot to include me as a company creditor in the list of creditors. ....

If the company Director did not invite you as creditor to a creditor's meeting, or name you as creditor when giving a public statement, under s.98 or 99, of the Insolvency Act 1986 it is potentially a criminal offence and a fine. The defence however is reasonable excuse. Could a reasonable excuse be for a director: 'I believed that my statutory creditors were commercial and not consumers so was not aware? In any event, as it is potentially criminal it will likely be a tort for damages against the Director for actual losses. As Walesman says though, the Director may not be worth suing if he's penniless. The claim is only worth £2000 at best for actual losses. What type of business was it and what was the business supplying you with?

Ref: section 98:
"the case of the winding up of a company registered in England and Wales, the company—(a) shall cause a meeting of its creditors to be summoned for a day not later than the 14th day after the day on which there is to be held the company meeting at which the resolution for voluntary winding up is to be proposed;
(b)shall cause the notices of the creditors' meeting to be sent [F3by post] to the creditors not less than 7 days before the day on which that meeting is to be held;
(c)shall cause notice of the creditors' meeting to be advertised once in the Gazette; and
(d)may cause notice of the meeting to be advertised in such other manner as the directors think fit.]"

Ref section 99: "(2)The statement as to the affairs of the company F1. . . shall show—
(a)particulars of the company’s assets, debts and liabilities;
(b) the names and addresses of the company’s creditors....

[F2(2A)The statement as to the affairs of the company shall be verified by some or all of the directors—
(a)in the case of a winding up of a company registered in England and Wales, by a statement of truth; and
(b)in the case of a winding up of a company registered in Scotland, by affidavit"

[Openlaw15]

Re: Consent order signed by third party solicitor and client not paid can I sue solic

Consumer Rights Act won't apply in this case as the agreement was pre October 2015.

So the breach necessary for s.175, CA 1974, to apply, assuming it was a consumer paying by a credit card is: either breach of the contract's express terms, or breach of implied terms of services under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 (as amended by the 1994 Act). Is the Op from England or Wales though? If the OP's credit card provider for any reason were not to pay out for the losses, at least the FSO will investigate it. If the Op has not paid by credit card the only remedy is it pursue the slim prospects of a claim in tort against the former Director.

[tifo]

Re: Consent order signed by third party solicitor and client not paid can I sue solic

I'm a consumer who hired a insured prestige car from the defendant. I paid £500 for a week hire by debit card and £1,000 in cash when I returned it, as per insurer damage excess because of damage to the vehicle.

I later found out that the vehicle had not included insurance and raised a claim for my above £1,000 payment plus a sum from the £500. The defendant argued that I had agreed to use my own insurance and applied twice to set aside the judgment. When these failed they agreed the consent order.

In hindsight it would have been better to pay £1,000 by credit card or even debit card but I don't have a credit card !!!! I paid in cash and they didn't give a receipt (I was told they'd email it) but they accepted in the court claim that the payments were made.

[nemesis45]

Re: Consent order signed by third party solicitor and client not paid can I sue solic

I'm a consumer who hired a prestige car from the defendant. I paid £500 for a week hire by debit card (hire insurance was included within the hire I was told) and £1,000 in cash when I returned it, as per insurer damage excess I was told (no damage waiver was offered at the time of hire), the vehicle was involved in an accident at a car park where it was damaged quite significantly, no other vehicle was involved and it was not my fault. There were 3 personal injury claims from the accident.

Upon raising the personal injury claims the hire vehicle insurer declined to accept the claim as the defendant insured the vehicle but then cancelled the policy (this was many months before). I didn't understand this as the vehicle had been returned the same hour it got given to me and I had been driving it many miles from Lancashire to Wales to the South.

So I raised a claim against the defendant for return of the £1000 + £400 as the hire payment should have included insurance and then there was no insurer to pay damage excess to pay to !!! Plus the 3 personal injury claims can still be bought against me in the future as the driver and this could be for over £10,000 .... I've still this over me.

I got default judgment and then the consent order after the defendant failed to set aside the judgment by 2 applications. I had no reason to distrust their solicitors as this is normal practice in a claim. The defendant had been successfully trading for many years so I had no reason to suspect liquidation. They have several other companies in the claims, hire and legal services business.

In hindsight it would have been better to pay £1,000 by credit card or even debit card but I don't have a credit card !!!! I paid in cash and they didn't give a receipt (I was told they'd email it) but they accepted in the court claim that the payment was made.

Even more in hindsight I would have hired from elsewhere but there were no prestige cars available anywhere else, within a reasonable distance.

Can you please clarify the statement?

" The car was involved in an accident in a carpark where it was damaged significantly, no other vehicle was involved / and it was not my fault".

nem

[Openlaw15]

Re: Consent order signed by third party solicitor and client not paid can I sue solic

I'm a consumer who hired a prestige car from the defendant. I paid £500 for a week hire by debit card (hire insurance was included within the hire I was told) and £1,000 in cash when I returned it, as per insurer damage excess I was told (no damage waiver was offered at the time of hire), the vehicle was involved in an accident at a car park where it was damaged quite significantly, no other vehicle was involved and it was not my fault. There were 3 personal injury claims from the accident.

Upon raising the personal injury claims the hire vehicle insurer declined to accept the claim as the defendant insured the vehicle but then cancelled the policy (this was many months before). I didn't understand this as the vehicle had been returned the same hour it got given to me and I had been driving it many miles from Lancashire to Wales to the South.

So I raised a claim against the defendant for return of the £1000 + £400 as the hire payment should have included insurance and then there was no insurer to pay damage excess to pay to !!! Plus the 3 personal injury claims can still be bought against me in the future as the driver and this could be for over £10,000 .... I've still this over me.

I got default judgment and then the consent order after the defendant failed to set aside the judgment by 2 applications. I had no reason to distrust their solicitors as this is normal practice in a claim. The defendant had been successfully trading for many years so I had no reason to suspect liquidation. They have several other companies in the claims, hire and legal services business.

In hindsight it would have been better to pay £1,000 by credit card or even debit card but I don't have a credit card !!!! I paid in cash and they didn't give a receipt (I was told they'd email it) but they accepted in the court claim that the payment was made.

Even more in hindsight I would have hired from elsewhere but there were no prestige cars available anywhere else, within a reasonable distance.

Tifo, this is why the main facts are important. As you did not pay by credit card it would appear you cannot claim your money back under s.75, CA 1974. The third party insurance company seems an issue. Specifics please, name of insurance company, date taken out temporary insurance and date insurance was cancelled by the car services provided. Name of car hirer, please? Why do you think it was not your fault if you say you could be sued for "£10,000" or more by the other vehicle's driver. What are the details of the incident's collision, did you go into the back of them or they you, or another type of collision? Did anyone admit responsibility (liability) for the car crash? How much damage was done to the prestigious car you were driving and how much damage to the third party vehicle (ie the other car). Who has made the claims for personal injury, was it your own passengers, or other passengers and or driver in third party vehicle? Did you swap insurance details with the 3rd party driver? Personal injury claims for low speed impact collisions may be hard to prove compared with say collisions in normal road conditions, ie at least 30 miles per hour. You did say this happened in a car park, right? What speed were you doing? What type of personal injuries, ie whiplash etc?

[tifo]

Re: Consent order signed by third party solicitor and client not paid can I sue solic

Can you please clarify the statement?

" The car was involved in an accident in a carpark where it was damaged significantly, no other vehicle was involved / and it was not my fault".

nem

It was damaged by automatic bollards on entry to a city hall car park where a private event was held. They'd been switched off as guests were arriving but unknown to the organisers and myself they'd been switched back on almost as soon as I was passing, following several other cars which went through. Just very unlucky and talk of the event !!!

I raised a claim against city hall but they denied liability and said should have seen the green/red lights (which couldn't be seen anyway unless a driver stopped the vehicle before the bollards and looked to the right) and went on about security etc. FOI request showed about 100 accidents over 10 years at the same place and reason. Security guards later changed their statements and wouldn't provide written ones.

[wales01man]

Re: Consent order signed by third party solicitor and client not paid can I sue solic

If you ignored the lights whose fault is it?

[Openlaw15]

Re: Consent order signed by third party solicitor and client not paid can I sue solic

It was damaged by automatic bollards on entry to a city hall car park where a private event was held. They'd been switched off as guests were arriving but unknown to the organisers and myself they'd been switched back on almost as soon as I was passing, following several other cars which went through. Just very unlucky and talk of the event !!!

I raised a claim against city hall but they denied liability and said should have seen the green/red lights (which couldn't be seen anyway unless a driver stopped the vehicle before the bollards and looked to the right) and went on about security etc. FOI request showed about 100 accidents over 10 years at the same place and reason. Security guards later changed their statements and wouldn't provide written ones.

Important - please post. Now this is more complex. You're still omitting details! When you're discussing liability details are required. Did you pay to use the car park via a contract, ie did you get a parking ticket? Or was it free parking? How about some details to save asking lots of questions. It sounds like an occupier liability claim under the Occupier Liability Act 1957. Were you invited to this private event, or alternatively was there an implied or actual permission (if not actually invited) by the event's organiser? Was part of that private event a right to use the car park and or if not expressly given, was there an implied right to use the car park? Were you informed of automatic bollards by the event organiser at any point? Was there an alternatively place to park cars or was it generally implied the car park would be the one you chose. What constructive knowledge did you have of the automatic bollards other than entering the car park and the damage already happening. For instance, did you enquire were you would park for the private event, what about other attendees/ visitors, did they intend to use the car park, did they know that there were automatic bollards that if caught out by them could do tremendous damages to especially prestigious cars? It is either the council or the venue organiser who is liable. Unless you tell me more I am not sure where the council has done enough to discharge their liability regardless of what the council has said.

The law: section 2, Occupier Liability Act 1957

"Extent of occupier’s ordinary duty
(1) An occupier of premises owes the same duty, the “common duty of care”, to all his visitors, except in so far as he is free to and does extend, restrict, modify or exclude his duty to any visitor or visitors by agreement or otherwise."

Where any signs saying will not accept liability for personal injury claims?

"(2)The common duty of care is a duty to take such care as in all the circumstances of the case is reasonable to see that the visitor will be reasonably safe in using the premises for the purposes for which he is invited or permitted by the occupier to be there.


"(3)
The circumstances relevant for the present purpose include the degree of care, and of want of care, which would ordinarily be looked for in such a visitor, so that (for example) in proper case.."


Did the council or venue organiser do everything they reasonable could in exercising their occupier's duty of care compared with what be expected ordinarily for an (hypothetical) equivalent situation?

"(4) In determining whether the occupier of premises has discharged the common duty of care to a visitor, regard is to be had to all the circumstances, so that (for example)—

(a) where damage is caused to a visitor by a danger of which he had been warned by the occupier, the warning is not to be treated without more as absolving the occupier from liability, unless in all the circumstances it was enough to enable the visitor to be reasonably safe; and
(b) where damage is caused to a visitor by a danger due to the faulty execution of any work of construction, maintenance or repair by an independent contractor employed by the occupier, the occupier is not to be treated without more as answerable for the danger if in all the circumstances he had acted reasonably in entrusting the work to an independent contractor and had taken such steps (if any) as he reasonably ought in order to satisfy himself that the contractor was competent and that the work had been properly done."

Question: were the bollards operating normally, ie why were they raised on your car but not the cars in front? Why were the bollards switched off, ie was this an arrangement between the event organiser and the council, in which case the council has knowledge the bollards need to be off. Was this security staff error? If so, vicarious liability is an alternative claim, ie breach of duty against council or private security firm for the negligence of security services.

[nemesis45]

Re: Consent order signed by third party solicitor and client not paid can I sue solic

Tifo, this is why the main facts are important. As you did not pay by credit card it would appear you cannot claim your money back under s.75, CA 1974. The third party insurance company seems an issue. Specifics please, name of insurance company, date taken out temporary insurance and date insurance was cancelled by the car services provided. Name of car hirer, please? Why do you think it was not your fault if you say you could be sued for "£10,000" or more by the other vehicle's driver. What are the details of the incident's collision, did you go into the back of them or they you, or another type of collision? Did anyone admit responsibility (liability) for the car crash? How much damage was done to the prestigious car you were driving and how much damage to the third party vehicle (ie the other car). Who has made the claims for personal injury, was it your own passengers, or other passengers and or driver in third party vehicle? Did you swap insurance details with the 3rd party driver? Personal injury claims for low speed impact collisions may be hard to prove compared with say collisions in normal road conditions, ie at least 30 miles per hour. You did say this happened in a car park, right? What speed were you doing? What type of personal injuries, ie whiplash etc?

There is no " other" vehicle involved here, the OP collided with a car park exit barrier so the above is irrelevant.

[tifo]

Re: Consent order signed by third party solicitor and client not paid can I sue solic

With all due respect to the posters asking about the incident with a car park entry automatic bollards, is this relevant to this thread, as I asked about the claim and consent order and not the accident? This happened in Nov 2012.

A claim against the council for the accident was looked at quiet significantly at the time and no solicitors would take the case on. I would like to raise this issue again but at the moment I do not know what I would now claim from them. Should i open a separate thread for this?

I'll answer what I can but the accident is only relevant if the defendant brings it up or there are any claims from it.