fell 2011 dont no what to do now

[tinkerbell1966]

hope some one can help .fell 2011 and broke ankle tibia and fib ,had 3 ops last one was in november a open fuision of left ankle ,got intouch with 2 solicitors ,to help with injury claim .but found out were i fell they didnt have liability insurance ,as was not a big chain of public houses ,,know im on cructhes ,and use a wheelchair when out ,my injury has caused me to have ligament ,nerve,tendon and cartlidge damage,allso arthritise,,been to hospital today and saw my specialist and told me got to have a ct scan,allso another operation again .its affecting my left knee and hips,cant do every day stuff now , coming up to 3 yrs and dont no were to turn .the landlord of the public house has left the property .

[des8]

Re: fell 2011 dont no what to do now

Hi and sorry to hear of your problems.
You mention already consulting two solicitors, so there may not be any unexplored avenues left.
However can we have more information please?
1) were you a member of the public or an employee when the accident occurred?
2) If an employee were you on duty in the pub when the accident occurred?
3) how did the accident occur?
4) why do you think the owner was liable?
5) what did the solicitors advise and why didn't they suggest proceeding against the owner, even if he didn't have insurance?
6) why are they certain there was no insurance?

I can appreciate what you are going through as I have a son in law who has just had an ankle fusion following an accident in the RAF 5 years ago resulting in a medical discharge. Like you in constant pain.

[tinkerbell1966]

hi my reply

Hi and sorry to hear of your problems.
You mention already consulting two solicitors, so there may not be any unexplored avenues left.
However can we have more information please?
1) were you a member of the public or an employee when the accident occurred?
2) If an employee were you on duty in the pub when the accident occurred?
3) how did the accident occur?
4) why do you think the owner was liable?
5) what did the solicitors advise and why didn't they suggest proceeding against the owner, even if he didn't have insurance?
6) why are they certain there was no insurance?

I can appreciate what you are going through as I have a son in law who has just had an ankle fusion following an accident in the RAF 5 years ago resulting in a medical discharge. Like you in constant pain.

hears my reply thanks .
I was a member of the public going through the back entrance of the public house on to a decking area took 2 steps and my left leg went sideways ,heard a snap but think i was knocked out ,counldnt stand up and shouted for help ,
no one came but i managed to grab a pole and banged on the patio doors leading on the decking area .
people came out and carried me in ,
the landlady told me she wasnt qualified to call 999 for a ambulance .so took a hour and half to come out .
the owner never had any safty issues in place .
1, there was no signs saying wooden patio was dangerous when wet .
2,no safty mats ,
3,wasnt cleaned and swept
4,was green with moss
5,they said it wasnt there job to clean it .
6,allso there was no accident book .
the solictor got in contact with the brewery who owned the site and when he first took it over was advised to get liabilty insurance .
7, because there is no liability insurance there no one for me to get compensation from .
even my local councilor looking into it.
8, because the public house isnt in a chain by law they dont have to have liability insurance .
if he did have this my last solictor could have got him on 6 counts of health and safty issues act 1974,
9. found out the owner has left the pub ,and no money .so was told waist of time persuing .
iv got photos but not sure how to post them to you you , its coming up to 3 yrs now ,still in pain and cant live a normal life,

[des8]

Re: fell 2011 dont no what to do now

Thank you for your response.
My immediate reaction: you state the brewery owned the site, therefore the publican was either tenant or manager.
Occupiers liability comes to mind.(occupiers liability Act 1957)
Where the pub is brewery owned, with a licensee tenant both probably have status of "occupier". This is because the tenancy agreement probably leaves responsibility for upkeep of the premises on the brewery.(Your point 5)

As occupiers both are responsible for any compensation claim made by a person injured on that property.

The brewery are almost bound to have a public liability policy covering any possible liability they might have for any of their properties. Even if the brewery don't have a liability policy covering the pub, it must be worth considering proceeding against them.

Did either of your solicitors enquire about the breweries status?

From point 6 I understand the brewery had advised the tenant to get PL insurance. This indicates the brewery are aware of liability issues and would have taken steps to effect insurance cover themselves.

Also IMO the landlord/lady should have been pursued. Even if (s)he has no money now, (s)he might later come into money (?create a business, ?inherit ?win the lottery?)

[tinkerbell1966]

Re: fell 2011 dont no what to do now

hi got a email from my local councilor and he had a word with the legal team who said its not worth pursuing due to the xlandlord havnt got any insurance and no money and its a private matter for me .as for your answer at the top of page as far as i am aware he was the manger ,so were do i go from here .
Admiral taverns owned the site but cant get any futher with this all every one is saying see another solictor. thank you for your help .how can i find out anything else about the points you brought up x

[tinkerbell1966]

Re: fell 2011 dont no what to do now

just a quick email reading through official copy of register of title title number WYK635019 EDITION DATE 21/02/2013
tital absolute admiral taverns ltd of milton gate 60 chiswell street london ec1 y4ag ,bought this property in 2005 ,
from avebury properties ltd .
the public house is classed as a manged public house .and leased for 99yrs .so what we can make out is the brewery is admiral taverns . hope this helps .

[wales01man]

Re: fell 2011 dont no what to do now

Take a look at Admiral taverns website it gives all the terms and conditions for tenants leesees one requirement is 5 million pound public liability insurance a copy of which must be given to Admiral on commencement of taking over a pub/

[tinkerbell1966]

Re: fell 2011 dont no what to do now

hi thankyou .will look this evening ,but my problem is no solicitor will help me as they say its coming up 3 yr deadline ,so who do i ask for to help .

[wales01man]

Re: fell 2011 dont no what to do now

Many will help problem is they want paying and I suspect if they think you cannot win they wont get paid so No win no fee is no go others on here may have ideas to help you

[des8]

Re: fell 2011 dont no what to do now

I don't understand why your solicitors (both of them) failed apparently to contact the owners.
If they did, the owners would automatically pass the matter to their insurers.
Insurers aren't stupid, and if it is obvious you have a valid claim they would attempt to come to an agreement without going to court.
Costs so far one letter.
If insurance co reject claim the solicitor could argue with insurers or get an opinion from a barrister as to the chance of success. Costs so far are minimal.

I'm surprised they didn't suggest the possibility of a conditional fee arrangement. New regulations came into force recently which mean in event of winning personal injury cases upto 25% of an award can be used to pay your costs, otherwise there is no cost to you.

On the basis of the information you have provided I think your solicitors have given you bad advice.

You might be able to get help here:"http://www.nationalprobonocentre.org.uk
for claims against the pub owners and the solicitors, if your current solicitors aren't prepared to review their position.

[wales01man]

Re: fell 2011 dont no what to do now

DES Admiral state that the tenant or lessee must have public liability insurance before taking over the pub who do the OP claim against?

[des8]

Re: fell 2011 dont no what to do now

It really depends on the lease.
Most pub leases (I believe) leave the upkeep of the property as the responsibility of the lessor.
The lessor therefore is considered an occupier.
The tenant is also an occupier.
Therefore both are occupiers, and proceedings could be commenced against both or either.
Whether or not the claimant is successful is another question, and if the occupiers defend the action the costs could be high. Hence the need for a conditional fee agreement for most people.

[wales01man]

Re: fell 2011 dont no what to do now

Its on there web site setting out the contract terms that the landlord must have public liability insurance if this is the case surely its no good going after Admiral unless they pass on the insurers details for the pub at the time of the incident.

[tinkerbell1966]

Re: fell 2011 dont no what to do now

hi have read the policy and states it must have legal insurance ,so y did admiral tavern let him have the pub and lease with out this. ? will look at the other web page as you suggested des8 .will do what i can tommrow and keep you posted.thankyou wales01 man allso x

[des8]

Re: fell 2011 dont no what to do now

The fact that Admiral apparently allowed him to operate outside of their terms does not automatically make them liable.
Did your solicitor speak to Admiral (point 6 in your original post) and if so did Admiral confirm that they knew the landlord had no public liability insurance?