Shoplifting

[CleverClogs]

Re: Shoplifting

What's this got to do with it CC?

Equality Act 2010 - link

They banned her because she is a SHOPLIFTER.

And she was a "SHOPLIFTER" (yes, I can SHOUT TOO!!) in part because she is mentally unwell and partly from side-effects of the medicine she takes.

I think she got off lightly.

Because neither hand has yet been amputated?

[catnip55]

Re: Shoplifting

What's this got to do with it CC?

They banned her because she is a SHOPLIFTER.

I think she got off lightly.

I do not condone what she did, however it was her first ever brush with the law and will almost definitely be her last, and she is quite unwell mentally at this time. I am sorry this thread is turning to a disagreement regarding whether or not she deserved what she got, I don't want to cause any type of argument. Honestly I just wanted some advice in regards to my original post from anyone who might have some knowledge or experience in this area, as I have none, and have never been in this type of situation before.

[bluebottle]

Re: Shoplifting

What medication is your daughter on for her anxiety and depression, Catnip? I do know there are some drugs used in psychiatry that have bizarre side-effects. One has kleptomania (compulsion to steal) listed as one of its known side-effects/issues.

[catnip55]

Re: Shoplifting

What medication is your daughter on for her anxiety and depression, Catnip? I do know there are some drugs used in psychiatry that have bizarre side-effects. One has kleptomania (compulsion to steal) listed as one of its known side-effects/issues.

She's on propanol for panic attacks. Her depression medication keeps being changed as she's not responding, and is actually waiting to see if this latest one (which she's been on for about 3 months) helps before they try combination therapy. If I'm not mistaken, she was taken off of 225mg of venlafaxine and is now on 45mg of metazipine. She also takes between 40-50mg of amitriptyline and is occasionally prescribed diazepam.

[wales01man]

Re: Shoplifting

You have to realise that a Court can take into account someones health issues a store that catches someone with unpaid for goods only sees that .
in this case the daughter has been caught and luckily only been banned from the centre it could have been a court case much more traumatic as long as she gets the help she needs to get better this can be put behind her as a silly mistake made whilst under stress.

Just hope mum and family will see her through all of this its done its over time to move on .

[bluebottle]

Re: Shoplifting

She's on propanol for panic attacks. Her depression medication keeps being changed as she's not responding, and is actually waiting to see if this latest one (which she's been on for about 3 months) helps before they try combination therapy. If I'm not mistaken, she was taken off of 225mg of venlafaxine and is now on 45mg of metazipine. She also takes between 40-50mg of amitriptyline and is occasionally prescribed diazepam.

Propanol is an alcohol, so I doubt your daughter is on that. Do you mean Propranolol, which is a beta blocker? This would be more in keeping with the treatment of panic attacks. Venlafaxine has known issues which include confusion and hallucinations. Metazipine (Do you mean Mirtazepine?) has known issues including hallucinations and mania. Amitriptyline has known issues including confusion, hallucinations and trouble concentrating. Diazepam has known issues including confusion.

However, depression can lead to kleptomania. So these shoplifting incidents may be linked to your daughter's depressive illness. She needs to speak to her Community Psychiatric Nurse (CPN) or Mental Health Support Worker, if she has one, about these two incidents as it may mean her consultant needs to review her medication or carry out further investigations with regard to the depression.

[catnip55]

Re: Shoplifting

Propanol is an alcohol, so I doubt your daughter is on that. Do you mean Propranolol, which is a beta blocker? This would be more in keeping with the treatment of panic attacks. Venlafaxine has known issues which include confusion and hallucinations. Metazipine (Do you mean Mirtazepine?) has known issues including hallucinations and mania. Amitriptyline has known issues including confusion, hallucinations and trouble concentrating. Diazepam has known issues including confusion.

However, depression can lead to kleptomania. So these shoplifting incidents may be linked to your daughter's depressive illness. She needs to speak to her Community Psychiatric Nurse (CPN) or Mental Health Support Worker, if she has one, about these two incidents as it may mean her consultant needs to review her medication or carry out further investigations with regard to the depression.

Yes, sorry. Bloody corrective spelling lol

I will definitely speak to the relevant people regarding her medication. Thank you.

[MissFM]

Re: Shoplifting

Hi Catnip ,

I am so terribly sorry to read what you and your daughter are going through.

I have some observations to offer that may or may not be helpful - I really hope they are.

Shoplifting sucks the blood out of retail but the main perpetrators are organized gangs. I would suspect that your daughter's age, and obvious confused state, may have contributed to the (IMO draconian) decision taken.

In your shoes, I would identify the "top person" running this retail centre and the CEO of the outlet concerned - and write them a cri de coeur - outlining that

- to her horror, your daughter had acted completely out of character as a direct result of her prescribed medication for a severe illness, and of the illness itself

- she is mortified and apologizes without reservation

- she is having her medication and treatment reviewed

- she will never do this again

- it is extremely important to her therapy and rehabilitation to spend time in the shopping center, which is one place she feels safe (etc) and she begs you to reconsider the ban

and so on.

As an aside, I believe strongly in reconciliation and restorative justice - if it were me, I would also consider returning the goods stolen 6 weeks before or paying for them.

I don't think your daughter need have any worries at all about CCTV from 6 weeks ago - it would take a murder investigation to unearth that. Even then...

I wish you so well and also offer these links for support as both charities have given practical help to those I care for

http://www.mind.org.uk/information-s.../#.UtgeRbSoico

http://www.sane.org.uk/what_we_do/support/

NHS/government provision in this area being so inadequate.

:tinysmile_kiss_t4: x

[bluebottle]

Re: Shoplifting

Hi Catnip ,

I am so terribly sorry to read what you and your daughter are going through.

I have some observations to offer that may or may not be helpful - I really hope they are.

Shoplifting sucks the blood out of retail but the main perpetrators are organized gangs. I would suspect that your daughter's age, and obvious confused state, may have contributed to the (IMO draconian) decision taken.

In your shoes, I would identify the "top person" running this retail centre and the CEO of the outlet concerned - and write them a cri de coeur - outlining that

- to her horror, your daughter had acted completely out of character as a direct result of her prescribed medication for a severe illness, and of the illness itself

- she is mortified and apologizes without reservation

- she is having her medication and treatment reviewed

- she will never do this again

- it is extremely important to her therapy and rehabilitation to spend time in the shopping center, which is one place she feels safe (etc) and she begs you to reconsider the ban

and so on.

As an aside, I believe strongly in reconciliation and restorative justice - if it were me, I would also consider returning the goods stolen 6 weeks before or paying for them.

I don't think your daughter need have any worries at all about CCTV from 6 weeks ago - it would take a murder investigation to unearth that. Even then...

I wish you so well and also offer these links for support as both charities have given practical help to those I care for

http://www.mind.org.uk/information-s.../#.UtgeRbSoico

http://www.sane.org.uk/what_we_do/support/

NHS/government provision in this area being so inadequate.

:tinysmile_kiss_t4: x

I fully endorse your advice, MissFM. It is good solid advice and commonsense advice, too. Have you noticed how retail security and a certain civil recovery operator conveniently forget that mental illness can stop a court case dead in its tracks? I saw that happen a couple of times at a magistrates court in Central London when I was a rookie constable with the Metropolitan Police. Coincidentally, they were both shoplifting cases and as soon as the stipendiary magistrates (now called District Judges) hearing the cases learned the defendants involved were suffering with mental illness, they stopped the hearings and dismissed the charges. Reasonable doubt had been raised.

[wales01man]

Re: Shoplifting

Not wanting to support these retail security goons but how are they to know the person caught after taking goods without paying has any mental problems? Any one caught can say they they are?

[MissFM]

Re: Shoplifting

Not wanting to support these retail security goons but how are they to know the person caught after taking goods without paying has any mental problems? Any one caught can say they they are?

Yes - that is a good point, Wales. From their point of view the OP's daughter could have been high as a kite on illegal substances rather than befuddled by prescribed drugs and mental illness. A point that needs clearing up.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Shoplifting

Not wanting to support these retail security goons but how are they to know the person caught after taking goods without paying has any mental problems? Any one caught can say they they are?

That is why hasty judgements are usually unwise,

[bluebottle]

Re: Shoplifting

Not wanting to support these retail security goons but how are they to know the person caught after taking goods without paying has any mental problems? Any one caught can say they they are?

You've got a valid point, Wales. However, the reality is that the quality of training private security receive is woefully inadequate.

[wales01man]

Re: Shoplifting

You can train a monkey but is it possible to train a security guard?

Remember Jim phelps in a TV series Mission I--------- he would fail trying to

[CleverClogs]

Re: Shoplifting

You can train a monkey but is it possible to train a security guard?

It would probably be easier to train a pig to sing.