Private sale gone so wrong :(

[Guest]

Re: Private sale gone so wrong

Hi
OK let’s turn this around.
In 2008 my wife and I bought a coffee table from a shop in town, we paid cash and arranged to collect it the following week.

At the weekend I was rushed into hospital where I had to undergo major stomach surgery. The consensus was that I would not be coming out.
Needless to say the coffee table was the last thing on anyone’s mind. Three months later I am pleased to say I was home again three stones lighter but anyway.
On contacting the shop I found that they had sold the table and refused to refund the money.
Needless to say I was not happy. They had not notified my wife that this is what they were going to do. I sent them a letter claiming breach of contract and threatening court action.
Shortly after I received a letter from there, “legal people” saying that I had committed regulatory breach of contract and they were entitled by contract law to do what they did.
I got a solicitor friend of mine to write them a letter which explained that it was impossible for me to repudiate the contract as I had already completed my part when I paid. Then they came up with the change of position defence you mention problem is that this was a contact, not an erroneous payment, they knew they were using money they were not entitled to as is the case here. They were not"innocent".

They should have notified me that they were not willing to store the item and give me a reasonable time to collect, and then they should have sought to rescind the contract by returning the money this would have left them free to sell the item. They could in principle have sold the item before returning the money but they must return it, as they did less a small fee for the inconvenience, which I suppose would equate to a contractual termination fee for damages incurred.
Peter

[charitynjw]

Re: Private sale gone so wrong

Or

HN offers to sell goods
Conditions - £150 purchase price, & goods must be collected by (time & date)
Buyer agrees, & performs a part of the contract (pays £150), & promises to perform the second part on/by the stated date.
HN completes their side of the bargain by ensuring the goods are available for collection.
Buyer fails to collect.
The goods now owned by the buyer are classed as abandoned goods.
HN takes reasonable care of them, & endeavours to contact (several times) the new owner.
Given the circumstances, HN gives the goods away.
As we're north of the border, the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982 applies, particularly Part VI s 71

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1982/45/section/71

[labman]

Re: Private sale gone so wrong

LOL

Where do you keep finding these bits of legislation?

You can always be relied on to spring a surprise.

[Gorang]

Re: Private sale gone so wrong

Peter

I don't know if this will make a difference or not but this

They had not notified my wife that this is what they were going to do.

They should have notified me that they were not willing to store the item and give me a reasonable time to collect,

is what the OP did as the OP contacted the buyer many many times and was transparent of when the item NEEDED to be MOVED by, and the reasons of WHY it needed to be moved by that time

Here is another way at looking at this

Buyer buys an item
Buyer does not collect it
Seller contacts them to remove the item due to needing the space
Buyer STILL does not respond
Sellers time is up to get the item removed so is FORCED to get the item away
Buyer STILL does NOT respond
Buyer not responding has caused the item to be useless and unsellable because of buyers LACK of correspondence
Seller gets rid of the item as the buyer has NOT responded

Seller notifies buyer they have HAD to get rid of the item
Buyer then suddenly responds with avengence wanting money back

The way I look at this is if the buyer had said OK I don't want this now so can you refund and you can resell then fine, I would of said refund the money and resell,

but because the seller HAD to put it outside and the buyer was TOLD on several occasions this would NEED to happen

and if the seller had just kept it outside for the buyer to pick it up eventully, it would of been ruined anyway by the time came to pick it up (if they came to pick it up)

the buyer would then want their money back because the item was ruined

If the seller then gave the buyer their money back, then the seller would be left out of pocket with a ruined item, because the seller COULD of sold to a buyer that would of picked it up, also the seller is left with the costs of getting rid of the item as it is ruined

In my view, I find it very very sus that the buyer would NOT respond to many many messages about picking up the item, BUT as SOON as the 1st message says the seller HAD to get rid then the buyer responds to EVERY message and starts to harrass the seller

My view of this is the same as labman

The seller gave as much info to the buyer as they could but the buyer CHOOSE to ignore it so tell the buyer to take you to a small claim court, as if you had kept it for them, then they said they didn't want it as it was ruined, then you are left down the price of the item and also the cost of getting rid of the item, all because the buyer CHOOSE to not respond to messages about picking up their goods

EDIT

sorry charity and labman my post crossed with your (slow typer I am lol)

Thanks charity as your post says basically the same as mine but better lol

[Guest]

Re: Private sale gone so wrong

Hi

I think that the court would adopt the view that the OP should not have treated the payjent made on the contract as hers until the contract was completed, there was nothing stoppng the OP from selling the article elswhere after making reasonable attempts to contact the buyer.
Striping all the legalese away i dont think many of us would be comfortable spending the money beforre the goods were claimed.

Peter

[Guest]

Re: Private sale gone so wrong

Or

HN offers to sell goods
Conditions - £150 purchase price, & goods must be collected by (time & date)
Buyer agrees, & performs a part of the contract (pays £150), & promises to perform the second part on/by the stated date.
HN completes their side of the bargain by ensuring the goods are available for collection.
Buyer fails to collect.
The goods now owned by the buyer are classed as abandoned goods.
HN takes reasonable care of them, & endeavours to contact (several times) the new owner.
Given the circumstances, HN gives the goods away.
As we're north of the border, the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982 applies, particularly Part VI s 71

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1982/45/section/71

Yes i can see this going well as an argument in a small claims court, wasnt aware the OP was a government official, abandoned goods, may work i suppose.

Peter

[Sapphire]

Re: Private sale gone so wrong

Personally I think that the buyer paid the deposit, then when it came to collecting the item had changed their mind and decided not to reply to the sellers reminders to collect, now that the seller has 'moved' on the item the buyer has seen a golden opportunity to get her deposit back and is suddenly making out they wanted the item all along.
I think this person is a 'chancer' and you need to treat them accordingly.

[Guest]

Re: Private sale gone so wrong

Peter

I don't know if this will make a difference or not but this
is what the OP did as the OP contacted the buyer many many times and was transparent of when the item NEEDED to be MOVED by, and the reasons of WHY it needed to be moved by that time

Here is another way at looking at this

Buyer buys an item
Buyer does not collect it
Seller contacts them to remove the item due to needing the space
Buyer STILL does not respond
Sellers time is up to get the item removed so is FORCED to get the item away
Buyer STILL does NOT respond
Buyer not responding has caused the item to be useless and unsellable because of buyers LACK of correspondence
Seller gets rid of the item as the buyer has NOT responded

Seller notifies buyer they have HAD to get rid of the item
Buyer then suddenly responds with avengence wanting money back

The way I look at this is if the buyer had said OK I don't want this now so can you refund and you can resell then fine, I would of said refund the money and resell,

but because the seller HAD to put it outside and the buyer was TOLD on several occasions this would NEED to happen

and if the seller had just kept it outside for the buyer to pick it up eventully, it would of been ruined anyway by the time came to pick it up (if they came to pick it up)

the buyer would then want their money back because the item was ruined

If the seller then gave the buyer their money back, then the seller would be left out of pocket with a ruined item, because the seller COULD of sold to a buyer that would of picked it up, also the seller is left with the costs of getting rid of the item as it is ruined

In my view, I find it very very sus that the buyer would NOT respond to many many messages about picking up the item, BUT as SOON as the 1st message says the seller HAD to get rid then the buyer responds to EVERY message and starts to harrass the seller

My view of this is the same as labman

The seller gave as much info to the buyer as they could but the buyer CHOOSE to ignore it so tell the buyer to take you to a small claim court, as if you had kept it for them, then they said they didn't want it as it was ruined, then you are left down the price of the item and also the cost of getting rid of the item, all because the buyer CHOOSE to not respond to messages about picking up their goods

EDIT

sorry charity and labman my post crossed with your (slow typer I am lol)

Thanks charity as your post says basically the same as mine but better lol

A problem with this scenario is that you are asking the court to believe that the property has somehow gone from an item woth £150 to one of no value that had to be thrown away.

Wont wash

Peter

[Celestine]

Re: Private sale gone so wrong

Wont wash

Nor did the sofa once it had been sat outside for a few days! Pretty ruined....

[Guest]

Re: Private sale gone so wrong

Personally I think that the buyer paid the deposit, then when it came to collecting the item had changed their mind and decided not to reply to the sellers reminders to collect, now that the seller has 'moved' on the item the buyer has seen a golden opportunity to get her deposit back and is suddenly making out they wanted the item all along.
I think this person is a 'chancer' and you need to treat them accordingly.

HI

Sorry i thought that the buyer paid the full puchase price.

Peter
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From post 1

I advertised my old suite on Gumtree 6 weeks ago. Female who lives 60 miles away viewed and gave me full asking price there and then of £150 - I had only wanted a deposit to secure but she was happy paying that. I gave her a receipt and pick up date of Saturday 26th November at 9am. Last week I text reminders and no reply so I called her using a different number and she answered but sounded vague and got off phone quickly - this left me with bad feeling!

I see your point Saph the cheek of the person conning the OP by giving her £150

Peter

[Sapphire]

Re: Private sale gone so wrong

HI

Sorry i thought that the buyer paid the full puchase price.

Peter

Did they, ok my mistake, but still the same principle, buyer changes mind, ignores texts to collect, seller sells on item and buyer see's golden opportunity to get money back.

Tell them to go forth and multiply I say.

[Guest]

Re: Private sale gone so wrong

Did they, ok my mistake, but still the same principle, buyer changes mind, ignores texts to collect, seller sells on item and buyer see's golden opportunity to get money back.

Tell them to go forth and multiply I say.

Doesnt really matter what you say at the end of the day i am affraid.
You cannot maintain that the buyer set out to con the OP when they parted with their hard earned , it really wont wash.

THe op had possetion of both the cash and the goods, she should have held onto the cash and sold the goods elswhere that way whe would have been able to issue the refund.
I am sure that is the way it will be viewed by the court.

Peter

[Sapphire]

Re: Private sale gone so wrong

I see what your saying Peter, and am not necessarily saying its a con, but I do feel that the buyer is wrong to pay for something then ignore messages to collect and then see a golden opportunity to get out of the transaction, something just doesn't smell right here.
Sorry hun I'm an Essex bird and we are naturally suspicious.

[Guest]

Re: Private sale gone so wrong

I see what your saying Peter, and am not necessarily saying its a con, but I do feel that the buyer is wrong to pay for something then ignore messages to collect and then see a golden opportunity to get out of the transaction, something just doesn't smell right here.
Sorry hun I'm an Essex bird and we are naturally suspicious.

Hi

I have the greatest of sympathy with the OP although it may not seem so, but it could equally be said that she should not have accepted fuill payment before the item was collected if the removal of the goods was such an intrigal part of the contract.

Peter

[labman]

Re: Private sale gone so wrong

I've intentionally stayed out of this as I firmly believe if the woman wants her money back she should go through the small claims procedure.

The thing is, she was in no doubt what the contract was - price paid, pick up date. Nice and straightforward.

I have no doubt had the issue been one like the one you cited regarding yourself earlier, the OP would not have hesitated to refund the money, even if the suite had gone.

This is not the case though. The buyer knew the deal. The seller knew the deal. The seller lived up to his side. The buyer did not live up to her side. Tough! She can moan and text all she likes, but if she wants her money back she should go to court, that MIGHT achieve something - I doubt it. Meanwhile the OP should have a clear conscience and get on with life.