89 y/o aunty, £6000 bill for Thames Water leak that is not her fault

[Vitamin33]

Hello, I wasn't sure where to post this.

My 89 y/o aunty lives in in a council-funded, assisted living, social housing complex for vulnerable people in East London, run by NHG. She was living in one block of flats, Staples House, but moved in January to another, but with the same provider, NHG.

While at Staples House, there was a leak, caused by old defective boilers, and one of the boilers was in her flat. Her flat didn't spring loads of leaks, it was just that one of the boilers was in there as I recall. The problem eventually got fixed but Thames Water are hounding her for payment, with paper bills and text messages, and now she has moved the bills are simply coming to her new address as the account number remains the same.

When the first huge bill came in which I think was around last September the manager at NHG told her to stop the direct debit, which she did, but the demands are obviously continuing because the debt has not gone away. I saw her yesterday and she is in quite a state about it all.

Today I emailed the NHG manager (the one who told her to stop the DD) to say that as the leak was caused by fixtures and fittings the responsibility lies with the landlord/owner, being NHG, and is nothing to do with the tenant.

I said stopping the DD is all well and good but that the bill needs to be paid and sorted, so that Sylvie’s name is not black-marked by Thames Water, and so that she can pay her regular monthly bill.

My worry and fear is what if NHG refuse to pay the debt, and take responsibility for the problem; will my aunty be liable? I copied the CEO of Thames Water on the email and also sent him a further follow up email to say TW should NOT hound my aunty, and that I consider it a serious safeguarding issue that she's been mercilessly pursued without them checking the background or facts. I also gave them NHG's contact details.

I'm thinking what if NHG refused to honour the debt, would my aunty have to sue them? I doubt she could stand the strain at her age, even if I did the paperwork for her.

Any tips, pointers or advice, greatly appreciated.
Thank you very much.

[echat11]

Your aunty lives in Council funded assisted living, social housing. I would think NHG (the Council) are responsible for maintaining boilers etc.

The following is clear - https://www.nhg.org.uk/help-and-advi...enant/#heating

If they are chasing your aunty for money she doesn't owe, which is pretty clear, she should be compensated.

Email the following:

Subject: Cease and Desist - Unacceptable Harassment Regarding Debt Collection

To: [Debt Collector's Name and Company]

Address: [Debt Collector's Address]

Dear [Debt Collector's Name]

I am writing to formally request that you immediately cease all harassing contact regarding a debt allegedly owed to your company, as your recent actions constitute unlawful harassment under the Prevention from Harassment Act 1997.

Specifically, I have experienced the following unacceptable behaviour:[List specific examples of harassment, such as excessive phone calls at unreasonable hours, threats, contact with family members, etc.]

The persistent and aggressive contact I have received from your company is unacceptable and must stop immediately.

Please be advised that if you continue to engage in harassing behaviour, I will be forced to take further legal action, including filing a complaint with the Trading Standards and pursuing legal remedies against your company.

I expect to be fully compensated for the harassment suffered at the hands of [name of company].

I expect a written confirmation that you will comply with this request and refrain from any further harassment.

Sincerely

[Your Full Name]
[Your Contact Information]

Update when you get a response.

[PallasAthena]

The manager's advice is all very well but what is the manager doing to get NHG to pay TW? The answer is probably nothing because TW haven't billed NHG. So start putting pressure on NHG as well to make contact with TW and ask TW to bill them not your aunty.

Who called in TW to fix the leak, NHG or your aunty?

As she cancelled her DD is she still paying TW for her regular water use? Otherwise she is accumulating a debt for that which she does owe.

Have TW appointed debt collectors or is it just payment demands from TW?

[echat11]

The manager's advice is all very well but what is the manager doing to get NHG to pay TW? The answer is probably nothing because TW haven't billed NHG. So start putting pressure on NHG as well to make contact with TW and ask TW to bill them not your aunty.

Who called in TW to fix the leak, NHG or your aunty?

As she cancelled her DD is she still paying TW for her regular water use? Otherwise she is accumulating a debt for that which she does owe.

Have TW appointed debt collectors or is it just payment demands from TW?

There is no doubt that is the case, the best thing to do, is put that money aside. If anything is set up i.e. Direct Debit, Thames Water are 'stupid' enough to try to take the £6,000. The water companies follow the energy companies as being totally 'clueless'.

[Vitamin33]

Your aunty lives in Council funded assisted living, social housing. I would think NHG (the Council) are responsible for maintaining boilers etc.

The following is clear - https://www.nhg.org.uk/help-and-advi...enant/#heating

If they are chasing your aunty for money she doesn't owe, which is pretty clear, she should be compensated.

Email the following:

Subject: Cease and Desist - Unacceptable Harassment Regarding Debt Collection

To: [Debt Collector's Name and Company]

Address: [Debt Collector's Address]

Dear [Debt Collector's Name]

I am writing to formally request that you immediately cease all harassing contact regarding a debt allegedly owed to your company, as your recent actions constitute unlawful harassment under the Prevention from Harassment Act 1997.

Specifically, I have experienced the following unacceptable behaviour:[List specific examples of harassment, such as excessive phone calls at unreasonable hours, threats, contact with family members, etc.]

The persistent and aggressive contact I have received from your company is unacceptable and must stop immediately.

Please be advised that if you continue to engage in harassing behaviour, I will be forced to take further legal action, including filing a complaint with the Trading Standards and pursuing legal remedies against your company.

I expect to be fully compensated for the harassment suffered at the hands of [name of company].

I expect a written confirmation that you will comply with this request and refrain from any further harassment.

Sincerely

[Your Full Name]
[Your Contact Information]

Update when you get a response.

Thank you very much, Echat11. That link to NHG is really helpful. I will email the manager again today and include the link and tell him to sort it out as a matter of urgency. It was NHG who sorted out getting it fixed but as I recall my aunty had to sign some kind of a form for repair company so money for repair could be claimed on insurance or something. It's TW who are chasing the debt, not a debt collector. I will keep you posted. Many thanks

[Vitamin33]

The manager's advice is all very well but what is the manager doing to get NHG to pay TW? The answer is probably nothing because TW haven't billed NHG. So start putting pressure on NHG as well to make contact with TW and ask TW to bill them not your aunty.

Who called in TW to fix the leak, NHG or your aunty?

As she cancelled her DD is she still paying TW for her regular water use? Otherwise she is accumulating a debt for that which she does owe.

Have TW appointed debt collectors or is it just payment demands from TW?

Thank you, PallasAthena. As per my response to Echat11, I will email NHG again today and put pressure on them to pay. It's really bad tbh that they have ignored it and left my aunty to sweat for so long. I will also email TW and ask them to bill NHG directly. My aunty knows she has to pay regular water money but can't do so atm because of the problem. No, it's just TW chaisng for the money atm. I will keep you all posted. Thanks alot.

[Vitamin33]

There is no doubt that is the case, the best thing to do, is put that money aside. If anything is set up i.e. Direct Debit, Thames Water are 'stupid' enough to try to take the £6,000. The water companies follow the energy companies as being totally 'clueless'.

Thanks, Echat, yes, it was a case that if she left the DD in place TW were going to try to take all the money!! She's lost sleep over this, and reading your reply and PallasAthena's makes me realise NHG have been a bit neglectful and shirked their responsibilities. I will let you know what happens. Cheers.

[PallasAthena]

TW will keep chasing until someone pays it and probably will appoint debt collectors at some point.

Normal financial procedures will mean that NHG won't pay until they have got an invoice that is actually made out to them. For a bill this size they can't just pay the bill that is made out to your aunty. They will have their own internal financial control procedures for authorising a bill of this size and I doubt the site manager has sufficient authority to pay or agree it on their own.

So your aim is to get TW to re-bill with an invoice made out to NHG. That will happen quicker if the request for the re-billing comes from NHG as well as from you. Then TW will chase NHG and it stops being your aunty's problem.

You are right to have NHG in your sights here. They seem to have been negligently uninterested in resolving this billing error for work they commissioned.

With hindsight your aunty should never have signed the bit of paper when the repairs were carried out as she hadn't commissioned the repairs in the first place (the small print probably says she accepts responsibility for paying it!). But hindsight is a wonderful thing and she's not to blame for being hood-winked into signing.

[PallasAthena]

Another thought, does the manager work from an office on site? If so I would visit during office hours and talk to the manager personally, stress the impact it is having on your vulnerable aunty, give the manager a copy of the TW £6k bill, and ask for them to email you confirm when NHG have got it rebilled.

When my mother was in sheltered housing (not NHG) I found a friendly sit down chat with the manager during office hours was the best way to get problems sorted.

[echat11]

Thank you very much, Echat11. That link to NHG is really helpful. I will email the manager again today and include the link and tell him to sort it out as a matter of urgency. It was NHG who sorted out getting it fixed but as I recall my aunty had to sign some kind of a form for repair company so money for repair could be claimed on insurance or something. It's TW who are chasing the debt, not a debt collector. I will keep you posted. Many thanks

Email the letter to Thames Water, they are doing the 'harassing', yes NHG need to sort the payment for repairs, but if you don't 'tackle' Thames Water, they will continue the 'harassment', who knows what other steps they'll take.

[Vitamin33]

Echat11 & PallasAthena UPDATE
A MIRACLE, I actually got a phone call from TW, lady called Claire, who was really helpful. She said they'd put a stop on the account so no more harassing bills, and would undertake a thorough investigation and get me back to me within a week, and when I asked outright if my aunty would have to pay she said NO. She said what they needed was confirmation from NHG that the fault/leak had been rectified and they can deal with sorting out the account and waiving the bill (not sure if they will claim the money from NHG). I'm still in shock. I am still going to email NHG, the manager, and send him link you sent me about NHG being responsible for repairs, and tell him that he must get in touch with TW and make sure they know this debt is not my aunty's. I agree that my aunty should never have signed that repair document, but think she felt she had no other choice as repair made to one of the boilers in her flat. The main thing is for the bill to get removed from her account, but once that's done, does she have any recourse to NHG for basically ignoring her plight and leaving her to fret for months, because if I hadn't emailed nothing would have changed? I'm sure my aunt will just be happy to get the bill the wiped and won't care about compensation, but ticks me off that NHG can get away with what they've done. I will keep you posted and let you know what happens, because right now it's promises, but I'm praying TW will honour what they said on the phone to me. Thank you both ever so much for your replies, really was a great help.

[echat11]

That's good news, update if TW don't do what they said they would.

[Vitamin33]

That's good news, update if TW don't do what they said they would.

Will do, and thank you

[PallasAthena]

Good news, but keep on top of TW and NHG to make sure promises are turned into action! Promises are worth nothing if not in writing.....

[Vitamin33]

Good news, but keep on top of TW and NHG to make sure promises are turned into action! Promises are worth nothing if not in writing.....

Totally agree and I've emailed NHG and said (I stretched it a bit) " I managed to get some legal advice and seems NHG have a responsibility to take care of this and should have done so way back when it first happened instead of leaving XX to fret and try and sort it out herself (she wrote a long letter to TW last week, copy attached).

https://www.nhg.org.uk/help-and-advi...enant/#heating

This morning I got a call from Thames Water. They are going to undertake a thorough investigation. They need confirmation from NHG that the fault has been fixed, and I gather this should have been provided to them at the time, so something has gone very wrong here.

Please ensure someone from NHG contacts Thames Water urgently and makes them aware that NHG, not XX, is responsible for what happened, and that any amount owing resulting from the leak at Staples House should be invoiced directly to NHG and removed from XX’s bill."

I did not mention that TW told me that my aunty will not have to pay, as I think that could lead to them doing nothing. I'll let you know what happens.