selling house - money owed to mother ex denying it now

[myfamily2013]

My husband and I have separated and are selling the house.

We were together for 20 years and it took that long for me to realise that he is a narcissist and everything he did during our relationship was abuse, we separated about 2 years ago but due to finances and the first plus/elderbridge complaint still ongoing we could not sell etc. Things after this got very nasty and about 18 months ago I had to call the police due to his behaviour and then take out a non molestation order.

Looking back at emails and texts message from him I see everything in a new light, I was young and naïve when we met (he was 6 years older and had been married and had a child before) and love bombed me and then I got pregnant and we moved in together within 6 months!

But to cut a long story short, he is a gambler and not a good one! he is also a taxi driver. In the time that we have been together he has coerced me to get into debt - he's asked me to apply for payday loans for him, credit cards and worst of all every time he needed money for cab repairs, or money he'd lost gambling he would make me ask my mum (because he knew that she had money saved) which stupidly I did. now it comes to selling the house and he has said he has no intention of paying my mother back!

We never signed anything, but my mum sent a breakdown and listed reasons for each loan - mostly it's the costs of two taxi's and repairs to those taxis and sometimes tax payments (because he never put that money aside!) I have text messages and emails going back a few years where you can see he made me ask her - it's hard to explain but it was a lot of guilt and saying that he felt depressed and that my mum lending him the money for this that and the other would make him feel better and he would be a better person etc etc - I'm an idiot for believing any of it and I see that now as his true personality has come out more and more as he is saying he has not signed any agreement therefore will not pay my mum back out of the sale of the house, he has however on many occasions in text messages and emails said that her would pay her back when the house was sold in the future (obviously this was before we split)

Once the house is sold I have calculated that we would be left with approx 65k each after paying her out of the proceeds, he complains that this is not enough for a deposit to buy again. he looked at buying me out but the payments would have been too high, and that was borrowing probably the same amount that it would have been to buy me out so i can' see that he's going to be buying anything any time soon - especially as rate are so high anyway and also he's 52 so is hard anyway!

I have found a place to rent so 65k is enough for me, I don't plan to buy again yet.

But my question is

what can I do about his refusal to pay my mum back what she is owed.

The amount is 80k

Can I ask the conveyancing to hold the 80k back or even his half that he is disputing? and I pay her my half - I am not denying that I owe it to her and I never would - he clearly has no morals. The thing is once that money reaches him he will make me take him to court for it.

And this part will sound awful but I want to tell him that paying his half back to her will cost him a lot less than the alternative (he has been a taxi driver since 2009 - so nearly 15 years and has not declared his earnings to HMRC for at least 8 of those years!) I don''t want to go down that road but if it was the other way round he would not hesitate!

Any suggestions of what else i can do?

Thanks

[atticus]

Maybe your mother should sue him for what she says he owes her. That said, there may be limitation issues in respect of loans more than 6 years old. She should consult a solicitor.

[myfamily2013]

Maybe your mother should sue him for what she says he owes her. That said, there may be limitation issues in respect of loans more than 6 years old. She should consult a solicitor.

Well he has acknowledged it continuously in writing as well as saying he won't pay it back. We will probably have to take him to court for it but I can't let him get hold of the money because it will disappear - him and his brother have hidden money for each other before! and then even if she get the judgement he will claim to have nothing and she won't get paid anyway! - or will end up with some silly arrangement to pay £1 a week back to her, she's 70 and that would not be fair.

So really the question is can I ask the conveyancing solicitor to hold back the disputed amount, he's welcome to the rest of his half, I only want to secure the amount that he disputes so that a judge can decide

[atticus]

If the property is jointly owned, then why yould the solicitor not pay one of his clients his share of the sale proceeds?

I woukd not accept such an instruction. If your ex will not himself give that instruction to the solicitor, then your mother must go to court.

[myfamily2013]

following on from this the house finally completed n Dec 2024 - the converyancinig solicitor is holding the profits until we both send a letter to them agreeing what the split should be - now I really need to know if this could be statute barred - i think as the agreement was that she would be paid when the house was sold then the 6 years starts from the date it became due ie dec 2024.but my mum is worried that the 6years is from last acknowledging.

Does anyone know

[atticus]

Why is she even thinking about doing nothing for 6 years or more?

[myfamily2013]

She wasn't thinking of doing nothing

long story short.

With husband for over 20 years - it was abusive - emotionally/financially and mentally. Finally ended it a managed to move out last Jan. he stayed in the house till we sold it in May. took a while to go though but finally completed in Dec.

In the meantime we argued about loans that my mum had given us both, but half of it was for two black taxis that he wanted to buy but didn't have the money, she lent him 26k for both of those and, the other half was for various other things that were for both of us and we agreed when we borrowed it back in 2011 (approx) that we would pay her back monthly. so we paid back approx £469 per month - then he started to make excuses that the cabbing trade was weak and so would say can we skip this month and catch up next and then next month never happened.

then througout 2013, 2105, 2017, 2018 he would ask me to ask her for loans for other debts he had with credit cards - friends/ family etc, putting pressure on me to ask her - he would never ask himself - but I would get the guilt trip (i have kept these emails) I feel looking back that this really was a coerced debt? he was also a bad gambler so he would earn oney in the cab then blow it - then say he was depressed and just wanted to clear his debt and again ask me to ask my mum for loans.

i have emails and texts from him saying that once we remortgaged the house( (when we were together) we would pay her back then - he sent those to me as well as text messages. also said if we decided to sell she would get her money back in full then too. so then when we did sell he started denying he owed it!!

i was at the house one day he was about to move out and he asked to speak to me- he said he had thought about it and decided that he was not going to deny he owed her money and wanted to pay her back for the two cabs so would give her 25k, the total debt is actually 80k - 46k of it is his and 34k is mine. our profit from the house each is 64k I am more than willing to give my mum back what I owe, he is not. I recorded this convo (as I recorded all conversations after we split as he was abusive verbally and would threaten to hurt my friends and famliy so I wanted to protect myself. ) and now he is denying ALL the debt and saying the cabs were a gift!!.

My mum has text messages from him back on 19th March 2019 as the last one saying he would pay her back when the house was sold or we remortaged and I also have lots of text message and emails saying the same thing - so I wanted to check what the position is re statute barred etc.

i've read lots on the internet but hard to get a definite answer as its a family loan - there was no signed agreement but as I said above lots of evidence - we are prepared to do a court claim for his half. but we want to make sure have the right info.

I am going to pay my mum money tomorrow under the ref "loan" as we think that as its a joint debt then this would reset any clock? but I think the clock starts from when the debt becaame due which was when the house was sold?

[myfamily2013]

I was wondering if this applied in any way - section 6 of the Limitations Act 1980.


6 Special time limit for actions in respect of certain loans.

(1)Subject to subsection (3) below, section 5 of this Act shall not bar the right of action on a contract of loan to which this section applies.

(2)This section applies to any contract of loan which—

(a)does not provide for repayment of the debt on or before a fixed or determinable date; and

(b)does not effectively (whether or not it purports to do so) make the obligation to repay the debt conditional on a demand for repayment made by or on behalf of the creditor or on any other matter;

except where in connection with taking the loan the debtor enters into any collateral obligation to pay the amount of the debt or any part of it (as, for example, by delivering a promissory note as security for the debt) on terms which would exclude the application of this section to the contract of loan if they applied directly to repayment of the debt.

(3)Where a demand in writing for repayment of the debt under a contract of loan to which this section applies is made by or on behalf of the creditor (or, where there are joint creditors, by or on behalf of any one of them) section 5 of this Act shall thereupon apply as if the cause of action to recover the debt had accrued on the date on which the demand was made.

(4)In this section “promissory note” has the same meaning as in the M1Bills of Exchange Act 1882.

[atticus]

Who loaned what to whom and when?

Isn't the argument now not about repayment of loans but of the joint owners' respective claims to the money held by solicitors following the sale of the jointly owned property?

[myfamily2013]

my mum loaned money to both of us as a couple while we were together for many reasons over the years as far back as 2012 - the conveyancing solicitors are holding the proceeds of the sale as we both asked them to do so untill we could agree on the split, but after that my ex decided to deny he owes any of it at all.

so I do not want to let them release any of it until we agree - as he has changed his mind over and over - lately he as said he denies it then said he didn't deny and wanted to offer 25k for the taxis, then he said they were a gift!! and now has now told me that he's filing for divorce which is fine but surely this will form part of the agreement over finances.

he last acknowledged the loan on th 6th March 2019 saying that he was going to speak to his cousin (who is a financial advisor and mortage broker) about remortgaging or selling

- quote "J**** I will be talking to D*** very soon about a remortage, if we can't we will sell up to get you cleared" then later that day "I think it''s about 170k to pay you off and the 2nd charge"

This is why I was going to make a much larger payment to her today and label it "loan" to reset the clock just in case as I know that he will think it's 6 years from last paid or acknowledged but i think the above reg applies and it would be 6 years from the demand for payment.

He is even saying that the only reason she wants her money back is becasue we split up!! well yes of course she would but also it was agreed to be paid on remortgage of the property or sale! as per his message to her on the 6th March 2019