NHS Whistleblower

[rustymotor]

Hello Folks,

My first post on the forum..

My wife has had to leave her job with the NHS and claimed unfair dismissal, as she has less than 2 years service she brought a Tribunal claim under whistleblowing..

So what happened: One night shift colleagues ganged up on her and provoked her in to an argument, wife made a statement and handed it to the line manager..the other staff also made statements. Three weeks and 10 shifts later she got a call from the sister in charge of the shfit 3 weeks earlier to say : We have to have a meeting, wife asked what is the agenda for the meeting the sister said, it is about your behaviour this is very serious you might lose your job..wife finishes a 12 hour shift and goes to the meeting..

At the meeting wife explains I'm not willing to have the meeting with you as you are part of my problem..sister says..this is very serious..I will say this and you will say this..wife said sorry not willing to have the meeting with you and left the hospital..

Later rang the HR and was told to have the meeting with the sister..asked the matron same answer sent back to sister..then informed the HR and sent all my documents to them..later that day the sister called again to arrange another meeting..said again..you might lose your job..wife again told her you are part of the problem therefore not impartial.

Wife then sent a grievence letter to the matron which, was ignored..wife is now in a bit of a state crying and shaking..doctor signed her off with stress and depression..

Wife then decides to cancel her shift because of no sleep, and later takes her sick note in to the HR, the HR manager told wife they would investigate however, this would take 3 to 4 months..colleague went with wife..said the statements made by others were out of context as these people were running a bullying campaign against wife..later denied by HR..

OK, long story!

A claim was filed at the Tribunal..SAR sent and we find out that the HR had conspired with the sister to fire wife..allegations amounting to gross misconduct etc..we found this out several months later..internal investigation went ahead took several months..mostly assasination of wife's reputation etc..the usual NHS method of operation..senior HR manger asking very loaded questions..

We are 2 case management hearings down the road and trial set for next year..

My question:

1. Should wife have been given an agenda for the meeting? They called it an informal meeting however, there is no such thing.

2. Did wife have a right to decline the sister chairing the meeting as she had humiliated wife before several times.

3. Was the HR in the wrong because they had been behind the entire process, they told the sister it was all wife's fault and do not give her a copy of the meeting until they checked it first.

4. After the incident wife worked about 11 or so shifts, the last but one shift another colleague who was involved in the original incident said wife had verbally abused her in the changing room ( we guess they could not understand why wife was working away happily so made it up). The sister rang the woman a support worker 3 times during the week..

5. Solicitors appear to have altered a lot of documents as they are grammatically incorrect ( we have asked to inspect the documents).

So folks sorry for the long post hope we can get a bit of help from the more experienced members..

Thanks..

[mariefab]

Re: NHS Whistleblower

Actually the story is a bit short.
Other than the fact that unfair dismissal is being claimed you've forgotten to state how the dismissal took place.

That said... to start things off; there's certainly no such thing as an 'informal meeting' at which you might lose your job.
The proper name for such a meeting is a disciplinary and NHS policies will state that full documentation of the matters to be discussed will be provided in advance.

[rustymotor]

Re: NHS Whistleblower

Hi mariefab, thanks for the quick reply..in answer:

Wife thought that after the incident which was an argument about a break that, there was to be a meeting under the Trusts minor breach policy however, it became clear that this was not the case as the person holding the meeting was about to fill in a series of forms, print them off and get wife to sign etc..wife thought it was odd but, being ambushed after a 12 hour shift and given that the person holding the meeting had already read wife's statement, wife decided to leave saying the sister was part of the problem and asked if another manager could chair the meeting. Then was told this is serious you might lose your job. Later that day the sister phoned wife at home saying..you must have the meeting with me hon, I don't want you to lose your job..wife said, what have I done? sister this very serious..wife again refused to meet her..we found out this month that HR had asked her to call again to have the meeting this was 6pm..earlier around 1pm we sent a formal complaint to HR..

Wife then met with a senior HR manager who did not take a single note but again under the SAR (3 months later) had produced 4 pages of handwritten notes..in those notes it said after the minor breach a higher sanction would apply..

After the meeting with the HR manager who then said you can stay off sick for a couple of months then return to work and during this time we will investigate under the whistleblowing policy and bullying and harrassment policy this will take 3 to 4 months..( by which time you have re affirmed the contract and then no time to file at a Tribunal and they would have continued the sanction and probably fired her).

Wife wrote to the Trust with her resignation saying they failed to protect her from bullying & harassment and was forced to resign, went on to file a claim for detriment and unfair dismissal under whistleblowing as did not have 2years service.

We later found out via subject access request that there were 5 statements including ours, and a long list of allegations written on a standard Trust minor breach document accusing wife of the very things she had whistleblown 2 months earlier..Bottom of the document was written "you have no right of appeal".

No one at any meeting actually told her what she was accused of, we only found out later..

The people involved in the incident had been bullying the wife for months, one other had humiliated her several times and the other was part of the disclosure..that night wife was working with a male nurse so she could be away from the bullies, the nurse was never asked for a statement.

The HR only released two statements under the SAR, we had to get a judge to order them to release the other two of which, two reflected the argument and two contained a host of false allegations..

In several emails the HR department were stage managing the sister and said..in thier opinion it was all wifes fault, they also said..don't give her a copy of the minor breach document until we have seen it.

Between the incident and the first meeting wife did a further 11 x 12 hour shifts..the sister kept calling the ward as one person involved in the previous incident was working with wife just a care support worker, in an investigation statement the nurse in charge states the sister kept calling the ward asking for the CSW..guess what, documents recieved this month say..there was another incident and wife is accused of verbally attacking the CSW in the changing room..we guess they couldn't handle the fact that wife was working away as usual same as she had done for 16 months..

The matron sent an email saying This is good another incident..sent an email around the ward to all managers..she the matron has now left the hospital probably been fired..

Hope this helps a bit,
Thanks.

[Amethyst]

Re: NHS Whistleblower

Can you just clarify, sorry, I'm not sure if the whistleblowing caused the bullying or if the whistleblowing was about the bullying ?

[matt3942]

Re: NHS Whistleblower

Perhaps I've missed something but how does this qualify as whistle-blowing? What exactly did your OH 'blow the whistle' on?

- Matt

[Amethyst]

Re: NHS Whistleblower

That's what I was trying to figure out Matt xx I wondered if she had whistleblown on practices at the place she worked, treatment of patients, lax procedures, something like that, and this had caused the bullying, but from reading it seems it might just be the complaint about bullying ? 2 case management hearings in I'm sure (or would hope) that would have been looked at if the tribunal is a defence of whistleblowing as a protected characteristic ?

Complaints that count as whistleblowing

You’re protected by law if you report any of the following:

a criminal offence, eg fraud
someone’s health and safety is in danger
risk or actual damage to the environment
a miscarriage of justice
the company is breaking the law, eg doesn’t have the right insurance
you believe someone is covering up wrongdoing

Complaints that don’t count as whistleblowing

Personal grievances (eg bullying, harassment, discrimination) aren’t covered by whistleblowing law, unless your particular case is in the public interest.

[matt3942]

Re: NHS Whistleblower

I agree [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] - this seems like a personal grievance more than whistleblowing (unless the OP omitted something). I'm surprised the claim has gotten as far as an employment tribunal (or setting a date for one).

Whistleblowing isn't a protected characteristic (because it's not a characteristic); however, if you are dismissed as a result of whistleblowing the dismissal will be deemed automatically unfair, regardless of the employee's length of employment. I have two issues with this: 1) I can't see how this qualifies as whistle-blowing, and 2) the employee wasn't dismissed, she resigned.

- Matt

[rustymotor]

Re: NHS Whistleblower

I agree @Amethyst - this seems like a personal grievance more than whistleblowing (unless the OP omitted something). I'm surprised the claim has gotten as far as an employment tribunal (or setting a date for one).

Whistleblowing isn't a protected characteristic (because it's not a characteristic); however, if you are dismissed as a result of whistleblowing the dismissal will be deemed automatically unfair, regardless of the employee's length of employment. I have two issues with this: 1) I can't see how this qualifies as whistle-blowing, and 2) the employee wasn't dismissed, she resigned.

- Matt

Hi Matt,

Just to make things clear: The whistleblowing included two protected disclosures approx 6 weeks earlier. The first one related to poor standard of care on the ward..dirty, no water patients left saturated. The second related to neglect causing injury what is known as a notifiable incident..i.e. CQC and Monitor.

The case was brought for failure of management to protect the health and well being of the claimant resulting in physical and physiological injury, break down in trust and mutual confidence. Detriment suffered following whistleblowing, victimisation.

First case management ordered better particulars of claim who did what where and when etc..second case management ordered disclosure, bundle and several day hearing next year.

Regarding the incident mentioned above, yes there was an argument between wife and two support workers about her break however, 10 or so shifts later and 21 days later management grabbed the opportunity to make false allegations of misconduct and enough to dismiss wife. Please remember none of this came to light until we sent a Subject Access Request and other documents came in to our posession through disclosure.

At the time wife was threatened twice with job loss, no agenda for any meeting and the HR orchestrated the whole thing in the back ground. Each time she asked what have I done? they did not reply. she felt forced to resign.

3 days after the incident wife sent a grievence letter ongoing problem with X and X..totally ignored.

Hope this clears things up a bit.

[rustymotor]

Re: NHS Whistleblower

Our case relates to 43B (d) and (f) PIDA 1998.

This has been accepted by the respondent however, they say they did not act on the information in other words did not take action under the whistleblowing policy...

We say they told everyone involved that they had been reported thus, creating an hostile environment.

A bit more info..

Thank you.

[matt3942]

Re: NHS Whistleblower

Thank you for the additional information. BTW you don't need to paste sections of legislation.

This doesn't explain how your OH is claiming unfair dismissal when your OH was not dismissed. Is it constructive unfair dismissal?

- Matt

[rustymotor]

Re: NHS Whistleblower

Thank you for the additional information. BTW you don't need to paste sections of legislation.

This doesn't explain how your OH is claiming unfair dismissal when your OH was not dismissed. Is it constructive unfair dismissal?

- Matt

Hi again,

Yes it would be constructive unfair dismissal..

Wife has had two co workers carry on a long term strategy to discredit OH, this was by way of spreading gossip by text and word of mouth, this had been going on for the past 7 months, wife had been telling management about it but, they did nothing..wife took the view that she would deal with it in a professional way and not let it effect her work and naturally, you have to balance problems with need to support the family..

The Trust say wife left because of the negative realtionship with co-workers however, she maintains the managers told staff they had been reported for wrongdoing thus, the long term bullies and other staff being subject of her whistleblowing made life very uncomfortable..they failed to protect her...in the end wife ended up under the doctor and needed counselling for several months..very poorly.. a changed woman..

Now yours truly is trying to sort it out, what baffles me is the situation with what they said was an informal meeting, yet it was going to be documented with a list of allegations. No agenda, no right of appeal..this we assume was thier startegy to dismiss for gross misconduct thus preventing a claim to the ET and the need for an investigation. The HR said to the manager holding the meeting they have reviewed the statements and conclude it was wife's fault..keep in mind we got some of this information months after and the rest at disclosure..

We have asked for an order to inspect documents as it is obvious they have been altered..

Thank you again,

PS: Apology for legislation post..

[matt3942]

Re: NHS Whistleblower

No problem, it just took a while to establish exactly what the claim is and what its basis is.

Just to clarify, you have copies of statements made by your OH's team members, two of which support her claim, and two of which contain various allegations against her. Are these allegations related to your OH's protected disclosure?

Do you have any evidence to support your accusation that management informed employees they had been reported for wrongdoing?

What are the physical and physiological injuries suffered? Or do you mean psychological, i.e. stress and anxiety?

- Matt

[rustymotor]

Re: NHS Whistleblower

Re the statements: 2 said more or less how the argument over the break started and 2 from sister and nurse in charge added allegations of neglect same as my disclosures. There was another member of staff wife was working with however, he was not asked to give a statement.

Re proof: Only that 2 nurses looked at wife saying someone has reported us. Bad atmosphere, problem at Xmas party, called in at 1am for a shift and refused a break by the same nurses. Never been in question for conduct before.

yes meant psychological, i.e. stress and low mood.

[matt3942]

Re: NHS Whistleblower

Sorry, I need to clarify again because you just said "my disclosures", who made the disclosure?

- Matt

[rustymotor]

Re: NHS Whistleblower

Sorry, I need to clarify again because you just said "my disclosures", who made the disclosure?

- Matt

Meant OH made the disclosures.

Last September wife reported one co-worker for pilfering, management blamed wife for creating ill feeling. same person who did the pilfering was one of those complaining on the night of the incident..now has written an entire book on how bad wife is..the woman in question had been off work for two months on her return the trouble all started up again.

I'm going to try and put matters in way that may be better understood..I hope.

OH made two protected disclosures re poor care to the line manager about 1 month apart. Nothing was done no one followed the whistleblowing policy..in effect ignored. 2 months later an incident flared up, an argument over a break. 3 weeks later OH was requested to have a meeting under the minor breach policy..no agenda given and no notice of the meeting in fact, straight after a 12 hour shift.

At the meeting OH asked what is the meeting about? The sister said your conduct, wife said I'm the injured party..sister said..you might lose your job wife asked why what have I done..sister said I am going to write this you will answer questions and we will both sign it..wife said no sorry..you are part of my problem and this is not fair.. requested another manager lead the meeting then walked out.

Wife then called HR who sent her back to the sister, she then went to the matron who again sent her back to the sister..wife came home and sent a senior HR manager all the paperwork i.e. copies of complaints she sent re bullying, the disclosures and a chronology. Later that day and after HR had all the documents the sister again called wife saying you must have the meeting with me and again this is serious you might lose your job.

It looks on the face of it that the matron did not pass the whistle blowing to HR, decided she needed to get wife fired, we found out later they were all conspiring to this end. Wife had a meeting with her union but no help.

A meeting took place with a senior HR manager, wife took a colleague for support, not an official meeting as such just to give her sick note, colleague told HR that the people involved in the incident had been bullying wife..again HR said this is serious..took no notes then produced 4 pages later..again, the manager never mentioned what the minor breach was about..

The HR then said there will be an investigation under WB & BH policies, this will take 3 to 4 months, wife could stay at home on sick with pay, then come back to work etc..( re affirm the contract..too late for a claim).

We then wrote saying the situation was untenable as gossip had spread all around the wards, wife resigned due to inaction and breach of contract etc..

Hope this helps a bit Matt.

Thanks,