Respondent sent me a 'draft trial bundle index' without any of my requested documents

[Hellothanks]

Re: Respondent sent me a 'draft tria bundle index' without any of my requested docume

thanks for writing Amethyst. When I was just checking out PM option as pointed out by Kati, what i realised was that there was an option to attach but then there was no way of attaching anything so may be you're right here. How do i 'post'?

In case it gets a little complicated for me to attach or post the actual document, I will ask teaboy2 to see if i can just type up the Orders so they could see the wording and if that will suffice.

Thanks

[Hellothanks]

Re: Respondent sent me a 'draft tria bundle index' without any of my requested docume

hello teaboy2, another member was saying i might have problem attaching a copy of the document containing the ET Orders when PM you. Will it suffice if I type up the Orders so you can see the exact wording for you to assist?

Or, you think I could attach the document. When i was just checking out the PM option as pointed out by Kati i realised that although there was an option for 'attachment' but then there was not a way of attaching anything from my computer, like when you get when you're trying to attach a document to an email i.e. it brings up the screen for you to select the drive and then file name.

[Amethyst]

Re: Respondent sent me a 'draft tria bundle index' without any of my requested docume

If you're having trouble posting them on the site / redacting them you can email them to me if you like and I'll post them up ( admin@legalbeagles.info ) - and yes typing the orders out would be fine if they aren't too long.

[teaboy2]

Re: Respondent sent me a 'draft tria bundle index' without any of my requested docume

hello teaboy2, another member was saying i might have problem attaching a copy of the document containing the ET Orders when PM you. Will it suffice if I type up the Orders so you can see the exact wording for you to assist?

Or, you think I could attach the document. When i was just checking out the PM option as pointed out by Kati i realised that although there was an option for 'attachment' but then there was not a way of attaching anything from my computer, like when you get when you're trying to attach a document to an email i.e. it brings up the screen for you to select the drive and then file name.

Yes you can type up precisely what is stated instead of attaching them.

[Hellothanks]

Re: Respondent sent me a 'draft tria bundle index' without any of my requested docume

Can you send me the whole summary and the order too please? Better to have a full understanding of where things are at right now then only half a picture.

Hello teaboy, I am having problem PM you today, so doing it this way. Sorry, although i took the ET Orders document with me to scan after work at a cafe, i forgot to do so, so typed up as they are written. I hope you get this. I will try again to see if i can PM you, in case you pick messages quicker through PM. I will email the site owner with this in case they have your other contact details may be they will send this too.

ORDERS
Made pursuant to the Employment Tribunal Rules 2013

1.Disclosure of documents

1.1. The parties are ordered to give mutual disclosure of documents relevant to the issues identified above by list and copy documents so as to arrive on or before 5 December 2014. This includes, from the claimant, documents relevant to all aspect of any remedy sought.

1.2. Documents relevant to remedy include evidence of all attempts to find alternative employment: for example a job centre record, all adverts applied to, all correspondence in writing or by e-mail with agencies or prospective employers, evidence of all attempts to set up in self-employment, all pay slips from work secured since the dismissal, the terms and conditions of any new employment.


1.3. This order is made on the standard civil procedure rules basis which requires the parties to disclose all documents relevant to the issues which are in their possession, custody or control, whether they assist the part who produces them,, the other part or appear neutral.

1.4. The parties shall comply with the date for disclosure given above, but if despite their best attempts, further documents come to light (or are created) after that date, then those documents shall be disclosed as soon as practicable in accordance with the duty of continuing disclosure.

2. Statement of remedy/schedule of loss

2.1 The claimant is ordered to provide to the respondent and to the Tribunal, so as to arrive on or before 5 December 2014, a properly itemized statement of the remedy sought (also called a schedule of loss).

2.2 The claimant is ordered to include information relevant to the receipt of any state benefits.

3.Bundle of documents

3.1 It is ordered that the respondent has primary responsibility for the creation of the single joint bundle of documents required for the hearing.

3.2 To this end, the claimant is ordered to notify the respondent on or before 19 December 2014 of the documents to be included in the bundle at her request. These must be documents to be included in the bundle at her request. These must be documents to which she intends to refer, either by evidence in chief or by cross-examining the respondent’s witnesses, during the course of the hearing.

3.3 The respondent is ordered to provide to the claimant a full, indexed, page numbered bundle to arrive on or before 9 January 2015.

3.4 The respondent is ordered to bring sufficient copies (at least five) to the Tribunal for use at the hearing, by 9.30 am on the morning of the hearing.

4. Witness statements

4.1 It is ordered that oral evidence in chief will be given by reference to typed witness statements from parties and witnesses.

4.2 The witness statements must be full, but not repetitive. They must set out all the facts about which a witness intends to tell the Tribunal, relevant to the issues as identified above. They must not include generalisation, argument, hypothesis or irrelevant material.

4.3 The facts must be set out in numbered paragraphs on numbered pages, in chronological order.

4.4 If a witness intends to refer to a document, the page number in the bundle must be set out by the reference.

4.5 It is ordered that witness statements are exchanged so as to arrive on or before 30 January 2015.

CONSEQUENCES OF NON-COMPLIANCE

1 Failure to comply with an order for disclosure may result on summary conviction in a fine of up to 1,000 being imposed upon a person in default under s.7 (4) of the Employment Tribunals Act 1996.

2 The Tribunal may also make a further order (an “unless order”) providing that unless it is complied with, the claim or, as the case may be, the response shall be struck out on the date of non-compliance without further consideration of the proceedings or the need to give notice or hold a preliminary hearing or a hearing.

3 An order may be varied or revoked upon application by a person affected by the order or by a judge on his/her own initiative.

[Hellothanks]

Re: Respondent sent me a 'draft tria bundle index' without any of my requested docume

Hello Amethyst, please could you send this to teaboy if you happen to have their email address? So they get it soon and if you're allowed to do that. I typed up the order as i forgot to scan the document today and yesterday finished work late, but didn't want to delay anymore. Also I am having problem PM teaboy tonight, i managed to PM them last night and they did receive it as I received a notification and i think teaboy has replied but I cant open access their reply through PM.

ORDERS
Made pursuant to the Employment Tribunal Rules 2013

1.Disclosure of documents

1.1. The parties are ordered to give mutual disclosure of documents relevant to the issues identified above by list and copy documents so as to arrive on or before 5 December 2014. This includes, from the claimant, documents relevant to all aspect of any remedy sought.

1.2. Documents relevant to remedy include evidence of all attempts to find alternative employment: for example a job centre record, all adverts applied to, all correspondence in writing or by e-mail with agencies or prospective employers, evidence of all attempts to set up in self-employment, all pay slips from work secured since the dismissal, the terms and conditions of any new employment.


1.3. This order is made on the standard civil procedure rules basis which requires the parties to disclose all documents relevant to the issues which are in their possession, custody or control, whether they assist the part who produces them,, the other part or appear neutral.

1.4. The parties shall comply with the date for disclosure given above, but if despite their best attempts, further documents come to light (or are created) after that date, then those documents shall be disclosed as soon as practicable in accordance with the duty of continuing disclosure.

2. Statement of remedy/schedule of loss

2.1 The claimant is ordered to provide to the respondent and to the Tribunal, so as to arrive on or before 5 December 2014, a properly itemized statement of the remedy sought (also called a schedule of loss).

2.2 The claimant is ordered to include information relevant to the receipt of any state benefits.

3.Bundle of documents

3.1 It is ordered that the respondent has primary responsibility for the creation of the single joint bundle of documents required for the hearing.

3.2 To this end, the claimant is ordered to notify the respondent on or before 19 December 2014 of the documents to be included in the bundle at her request. These must be documents to be included in the bundle at her request. These must be documents to which she intends to refer, either by evidence in chief or by cross-examining the respondent’s witnesses, during the course of the hearing.

3.3 The respondent is ordered to provide to the claimant a full, indexed, page numbered bundle to arrive on or before 9 January 2015.

3.4 The respondent is ordered to bring sufficient copies (at least five) to the Tribunal for use at the hearing, by 9.30 am on the morning of the hearing.

4. Witness statements

4.1 It is ordered that oral evidence in chief will be given by reference to typed witness statements from parties and witnesses.

4.2 The witness statements must be full, but not repetitive. They must set out all the facts about which a witness intends to tell the Tribunal, relevant to the issues as identified above. They must not include generalisation, argument, hypothesis or irrelevant material.

4.3 The facts must be set out in numbered paragraphs on numbered pages, in chronological order.

4.4 If a witness intends to refer to a document, the page number in the bundle must be set out by the reference.

4.5 It is ordered that witness statements are exchanged so as to arrive on or before 30 January 2015.

CONSEQUENCES OF NON-COMPLIANCE

1 Failure to comply with an order for disclosure may result on summary conviction in a fine of up to 1,000 being imposed upon a person in default under s.7 (4) of the Employment Tribunals Act 1996.

2 The Tribunal may also make a further order (an “unless order”) providing that unless it is complied with, the claim or, as the case may be, the response shall be struck out on the date of non-compliance without further consideration of the proceedings or the need to give notice or hold a preliminary hearing or a hearing.

3 An order may be varied or revoked upon application by a person affected by the order or by a judge on his/her own initiative.

[Amethyst]

Re: Respondent sent me a 'draft tria bundle index' without any of my requested docume

He'll see it on here Especially if I give him a prod [MENTION=19071]teaboy2[/MENTION] xxx Thanks for typing that up, it does help to see the full wording of these orders as they can be misinterpreted sometimes. You might need to delete some older PM's as it might be the folder is full up, try that first, if it doesn't help then let me know and I'll try have a look into it further xx

[Hellothanks]

Re: Respondent sent me a 'draft tria bundle index' without any of my requested docume

Hello Amethyst, thanks a lot for such a prompt reply. I managed to access PM - its just me not that good with IT matters so I am always getting something wrong. I have now PM teaboy the typed up Orders as well. Thanks a lot for that.

[teaboy2]

Re: Respondent sent me a 'draft trial bundle index' without any of my requested docum

Its as i had thought, its sounds like they have provided the list of documents but not the copies of the documents in the list. Which is a clear breach of the order! Write to the respondent advising them of this, and also inform the tribunal!

[teaboy2]

Re: Respondent sent me a 'draft trial bundle index' without any of my requested docum

It appears that the other party has failed to list and disclose all documents in their possession or control that is relevant to the case, regardless of if it helps their case of hinders it. HelloThanks Knows the documents exist as she had seen them previous, but they have not listed them as documents in their possession in their list of documents or sent copies of them.

So much for parties in legal disputes being good or honest when it comes to disclosing documents, like was stated earlier in this thread - Its naive to think parties to legal action would be 100% honest about what documents they have when such documents may hinder their case!!

[Hellothanks]

Re: Respondent sent me a 'draft trial bundle index' without any of my requested docum

Yes, finally i got the message clear - yes that's what happened, thanks teaboy

It appears that the other party has failed to list and disclose all documents in their possession or control that is relevant to the case, regardless of if it helps their case of hinders it. HelloThanks Knows the documents exist as she had seen them previous, but they have not listed them as documents in their possession in their list of documents or sent copies of them.

So much for parties in legal disputes being good or honest when it comes to disclosing documents, like was stated earlier in this thread - Its naive to think parties to legal action would be 100% honest about what documents they have when such documents may hinder their case!!

[teaboy2]

Re: Respondent sent me a 'draft trial bundle index' without any of my requested docum

Your Welcome.

Can you update the others here, with what you sent me in PM this morning regarding what the respondent as said to you in reply to your querying them? That way it keeps everyone in the loop etc, and will help others who may find themselves in similar situation.

[Hellothanks]

Re: Respondent sent me a 'draft trial bundle index' without any of my requested docum

Respondednt representative reason for non-compliance with order was ‘incorrectly assumed that the order was to agree the index on 9^th January'.

I wrote to the Tribunal and the ending paragraph was:
I wish for the Tribunal to consider all of the above non-compliance to the orders and take the action that would be fair in the name of justice and fairness. However, if despite all the non-compliance on the part of the Respondent and Ms Sayed the Tribunal decides not to strike out the Response and the Respondent sends me a complete bundle with all the requested documents within the next 10 days then I wish to request that the deadline for exchange of witness statement is extended until mid February for me alone. Or, the Respondent is fined for their non-compliance to the orders thereby hindering my ability and time to prepare despite knowing I am not legally represented.

Representative wrote a counter response saying it a genuin misunderstanding on her part and that 'if an extension to exchange witness statements is necessary then this can be agreed. However the Respondent will only agree to simultaneous exchange of witness statements and objects to the Claimant’s suggestion that the deadline for exchange of statements is extended for her only. Where is justice in that!? I mean if Tribunal offers them the extension as well then it will be like they are being rewarded for non-compliance to the orders.

Also, representative has admitted that they cant disclosed/included the CEO's Strategic Plan because it does not exist. Now, this is after all along CEO has been claiming to be doing a strategic review and having postponed the deadline for presenting the Plan to the Trustees 3 times, last date was Nov 14. Also, after I had proved her first reason given for my 'redundancy' did not apply to me, she then claimed redundancy was due to her strategic review and instruction from Trustees.

I am thinking of doing a counter response and as a ending paragraph i am thinking of writing something along this: I feel there are enough reasons for why the Response should be struck out. Breaches in non-compliance and then the revelation that CEO strategic doesn't even exist goes to show that all along CEO has been giving me and then Tribunal false information and in so doing she tried to pervert the course of justice. In the event Tribunal decides not to strick out the Response, i wish to request that Tribunal orders them to disclose/include my requested documents as they are all relevant to my case, representative thinking that they are not relevant cant be trusted. Also, that the deadline for witness statement be extended for me alone - if the extension if offered to them as well then it would be as though they are being rewarded for non-compliance to the orders. However, if the later request is not permit table then I wish Tribunal to fine Respondent for the non-compliance to the orders because then granting extension to both under the circumstance would not be that unfair.

can people please share thoughts - are my requests reasonable? If no, what would be reasonable for me to end my counter response with given the circumstance?

Thank you

Your Welcome.

Can you update the others here, with what you sent me in PM this morning regarding what the respondent as said to you in reply to your querying them? That way it keeps everyone in the loop etc, and will help others who may find themselves in similar situation.

[teaboy2]

Re: Respondent sent me a 'draft trial bundle index' without any of my requested docum

Respondednt representative reason for non-compliance with order was ‘incorrectly assumed that the order was to agree the index on 9^th January'.

I wrote to the Tribunal and the ending paragraph was:
I wish for the Tribunal to consider all of the above non-compliance to the orders and take the action that would be fair in the name of justice and fairness. However, if despite all the non-compliance on the part of the Respondent and Ms Sayed the Tribunal decides not to strike out the Response and the Respondent sends me a complete bundle with all the requested documents within the next 10 days then I wish to request that the deadline for exchange of witness statement is extended until mid February for me alone. Or, the Respondent is fined for their non-compliance to the orders thereby hindering my ability and time to prepare despite knowing I am not legally represented.

Representative wrote a counter response saying it a genuin misunderstanding on her part and that 'if an extension to exchange witness statements is necessary then this can be agreed. However the Respondent will only agree to simultaneous exchange of witness statements and objects to the Claimant’s suggestion that the deadline for exchange of statements is extended for her only. Where is justice in that!? I mean if Tribunal offers them the extension as well then it will be like they are being rewarded for non-compliance to the orders.

Also, representative has admitted that they cant disclosed/included the CEO's Strategic Plan because it does not exist. Now, this is after all along CEO has been claiming to be doing a strategic review and having postponed the deadline for presenting the Plan to the Trustees 3 times, last date was Nov 14. Also, after I had proved her first reason given for my 'redundancy' did not apply to me, she then claimed redundancy was due to her strategic review and instruction from Trustees.

I am thinking of doing a counter response and as a ending paragraph i am thinking of writing something along this: I feel there are enough reasons for why the Response should be struck out. Breaches in non-compliance and then the revelation that CEO strategic doesn't even exist goes to show that all along CEO has been giving me and then Tribunal false information and in so doing she tried to pervert the course of justice. In the event Tribunal decides not to strick out the Response, i wish to request that Tribunal orders them to disclose/include my requested documents as they are all relevant to my case, representative thinking that they are not relevant cant be trusted. Also, that the deadline for witness statement be extended for me alone - if the extension if offered to them as well then it would be as though they are being rewarded for non-compliance to the orders. However, if the later request is not permit table then I wish Tribunal to fine Respondent for the non-compliance to the orders because then granting extension to both under the circumstance would not be that unfair.

can people please share thoughts - are my requests reasonable? If no, what would be reasonable for me to end my counter response with given the circumstance?

Thank you

Did you refer to strategic plan or review as they seem to be calling it differently to what your calling it. I suggest calling it the same thing they call it as to not confuse or lead to the assumption your requesting a different document to what they call it!

[Hellothanks]

Re: Respondent sent me a 'draft trial bundle index' without any of my requested docum

it was a 'strategic review' as was in process during the time I was there, but now it should be a Plan as it i.e. 'review' should have been complete by Nov 14. I hope i am making clear!

Everyone knew her being busy with doing 'review' was a sham, she wasn't doing anything because not only is the Plan non-exitance but also other relevant documents they had cited now they claim are non-existance. They driving me up the wall. One doesn't need to be a genius to know its all lies but as i said previously she is a lucky woman, gets away with everything! Could you image that I would be excused if i had been claiming to be busy doing a 'strategic review' for one an half year and then having postponed presenting the Plan based one my supposed review 3 times, it is still non-existent. Why does life has be so unfair sometimes ! sometimes unfair beyond belief. I don't know what I would if Judge accepts allows for this.

Did you refer to strategic plan or review as they seem to be calling it differently to what your calling it. I suggest calling it the same thing they call it as to not confuse or lead to the assumption your requesting a different document to what they call it!