Unusual question re. Reasonable adjustments

[AmandaP]

I am vegan and object to my employer using inhumane traps to catch mice, as well as poison.

Would expecting humane tests to be used considered a reasonable adjustment?

Regards

[wales01man]

Re: Unusual question re. Reasonable adjustments

What job in which industry do you work?

[Amethyst]

Re: Unusual question re. Reasonable adjustments

Do you mean humane traps ?

I doubt it could be deemed a reasonable adjustment to your working environment as I'm not sure being a Vegan is considered as a disability . Health and Safety would override any requirements - however if you come up with a suitable alternative that is efficient, cost effective and a reasonable alternative then you should put it to your employer.

[AmandaP]

Re: Unusual question re. Reasonable adjustments

Reasonable adjustments does not only apply to disability of course, but also belief systems.

Yes, humane 'traps', that was just a typo. I wasn't expecting them to test the mice individually against some pre set criterion (!) but I do think that using traps from which the mice can be freed unharmed is a reasonsble adjustment. Just wondered if the issue had ever arisen before, or anything similar.

regards

[Amethyst]

Re: Unusual question re. Reasonable adjustments

I haven't seen anything but I'm sure it must have come up as many people would feel similarly.

I think all you can do to begin with is raise the issue with your managers and demonstrate to them there is a viable alternative.

[ssparks2003]

Re: Unusual question re. Reasonable adjustments

Amanda,

Once you have trapped a rat/mouse in a humane trap what do you think leagaly a pest control company can do with the said vermin? sadly letting them go after a sound talking to is not going to stop them causing a problem, and i do speak from experience of suffering 18 months with rats in the loft because of the lady next door and her "humain ways"

Also what does being a vegan have to do with it? what you eat has nothing to do with whether you feel personally mice should die or not; its a personal view

[Amethyst]

Re: Unusual question re. Reasonable adjustments

Rentokil http://www.rentokil.co.uk/mice/business-service/radar/ seems to be gassing them.

[ssparks2003]

Re: Unusual question re. Reasonable adjustments

Being gassed to death does not sound much more humane to be, but each to their own.

[Amethyst]

Re: Unusual question re. Reasonable adjustments

That's exactly what I thought. Was looking to see if Rentokil had humane traps and what they did with them afterwards, but that seems to be as humane as they get.

What type of place do you work in ? (ie be different rules I suspect if you work in a food prep place to an office)

[ssparks2003]

Re: Unusual question re. Reasonable adjustments

Looking into this further I don't think that you would be covered by the act anyway.

To be protected under the Equality Act, a philosophical belief must:

• be genuinely held
• be a belief and not an opinion or viewpoint, based on the present state of information available
• be a belief as to a weighty and substantial aspect of human life and behaviour
• attain a certain level of cogency, seriousness, cohesion and importance
• be worthy of respect in a democratic society, compatible with human dignity and not conflict with the fundamental rights of others.

Humanism and atheism are examples of philosophical beliefs.

I wold think that you would be hard pressed to convince a judge that your personal views on vermin disposal counts as belief at a philosophical level any more that I could convince them that people should not be permitted to wear brown leather shoes with a suit. They are both personal opinions but are they more than that?

[Kati]

Re: Unusual question re. Reasonable adjustments

One thing you have to remember - and I know this from experience :sad: - is that if you use a humane trap the mouse would have to be released at least a mile from where it was caught in order for it to probably not return (not 100% foolproof). Which type of humane trap did you have in mind [MENTION=54516]AmandaP[/MENTION]??
A 'trap-ease' type?:


or a 'smart' one?:


Would it be just for mice? Or would you need rat sized ones too?


K x

[des8]

Re: Unusual question re. Reasonable adjustments

I wonder why your employer has a rodent problem?
They tend to gravitate where there is food, and where there is food one would hope for the highest standards of housekeeping.
Of course if it's a grainstore there would be need to control the rat population, but killing one rat only makes space for another to take its place!

The humane ways of killing rodents require a quick execution.
Live capture traps are only humane if the captured rodent is released soon after capture. Rodents have a high rate of metabolism and suffer quickly from thirst (I only know this from our children who kept pet rats)
The most humane traps therefore are those that kill instantly.
There are two types that fill the bill: snap traps (properly baited and used) or electronic traps which kill with high voltage electric shock.

If these are acceptable to you, you may be able to persuade your employer to use them on the grounds they are more efficient than his current methods?

[des8]

Re: Unusual question re. Reasonable adjustments

Looking into this further I don't think that you would be covered by the act anyway.

To be protected under the Equality Act, a philosophical belief must:

• be genuinely held
• be a belief and not an opinion or viewpoint, based on the present state of information available
• be a belief as to a weighty and substantial aspect of human life and behaviour
• attain a certain level of cogency, seriousness, cohesion and importance
• be worthy of respect in a democratic society, compatible with human dignity and not conflict with the fundamental rights of others.

Humanism and atheism are examples of philosophical beliefs.

I wold think that you would be hard pressed to convince a judge that your personal views on vermin disposal counts as belief at a philosophical level any more that I could convince them that people should not be permitted to wear brown leather shoes with a suit. They are both personal opinions but are they more than that?

Now if you are a Buddhist.............. ?

[wales01man]

Re: Unusual question re. Reasonable adjustments

This is a bit like a person whose religion bans a type of meat working in a supermarket and asking then to stop selling that meat???????????

[leclerc]

Re: Unusual question re. Reasonable adjustments

Unless you are being asked to remove dead mice from the place or work or have seen dead mice in traps then it's difficult to suggest that there is anything that can be done in terms of employment law.

The acas advice might be worth looking at but there is nothing that appears to fit the profile that you have asked about: http://www.acas.org.uk/media/pdf/f/l/religion_1.pdf

The other document I can suggest a read of is from equalityhumanrights:

http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/s...026-03-14b.pdf