ET a big let down

[katyandjohn22]

Well I found out I lost my hard fought ET case and feel
very let down by the judicial process. Had to wait 8 weeks for outcome and was totally shocked when it came. No grounds for appeal as no issues in law.
Sadly the ET preferred the evidence of the respondent, accusing me of fabricating evidence and stating that I wasn't a credible witness.
Untruths were told throughout by the respondent's witnesses and now I face a costs order which could be substantial.
Not sure how the ET could get it so wrong and my conscience is clear. I was truthful throughout, but the respondent must've carefully planned their strategy, unless other influences were at work. Can't believe that untruths were believed and now I could lose everything. Can't be right. I now feel I've got to find ways of proving I didn't lie and that the respondents witnesses did. Feeling very let down by the whole process.
I was assured of the strength of my case all through and had legal expenses cover through house insurance.
I did receive a letter warning me that my case was hopeless and threat of substantial costs a month before hearing, but my representative advised that it was normal tactics and to ignore it. The respondent built up costs enormously through repeatedly requests, emails and large number of witnesses. They fought the respondents case very aggressively! Very upset and worried. Your thoughts would be appreciated . Disgraceful and I now have no faith in the employment tribunal system.

[Johnboy007]

Re: ET a big let down

Could I ask who your representative was?
Who was the letter from?
Unfortunately friend, lies are told, blatant lies.
But unless you can disprove them, then the ET will have no option, other than to find in favour of the respondent.
Of course the respondent will have his case all planned out.
He has too, just as you have too.
Witnesses will suddenly appear and probably a member of the legal system to advise them.
The job of the respondents legal team is to disprove your evidence and discredit any witnesses you may have had.
I am really sorry for you, as you have obviously received unsound advice from your representative.
If he is a Union official then you could try complaining to his union and asking them to cover costs, due to the bad advice given.
Personally, I do not hold out a lot of hope of you getting any satisfaction.
As you quite rightly stated, you can only appeal an ET decision on a point of law.:tinysmile_cry_t:

[ironman]

Re: ET a big let down

"I did receive a letter warning me that my case was hopeless and threat of substantial costs a month before hearing",

if the court made such a comment then you are in trouble, if it came from the respondent then you might be ok

It is uncommon for a cost order on the losing party as long as the arguments were sound

[Johnboy007]

Re: ET a big let down

"I did receive a letter warning me that my case was hopeless and threat of substantial costs a month before hearing",

if the court made such a comment then you are in trouble, if it came from the respondent then you might be ok

It is uncommon for a cost order on the losing party as long as the arguments were sound

It's why I asked that question......
I personally thing that our poor friend is in a 'no win situation', unless he can provide evidence of the lies.
I have a sneaky feeling that the letter came from the respondents solicitor or advisor.
Scare tactics, and probably why his representative gave him the crap advice.

[friendinneed]

Re: ET a big let down

It's why I asked that question......
I personally thing that our poor friend is in a 'no win situation', unless he can provide evidence of the lies.
I have a sneaky feeling that the letter came from the respondents solicitor or advisor.
Scare tactics, and probably why his representative gave him the crap advice.

The letter warning me of costs came from respondent's solicitor, who fought the case rigorously. Behaviour was shocking and drove up costs as much as possible. At one CMD I was informed that solicitor was accused of bringing profession into disrepute. It developed into a battle between legals. Shameful really and now I'm suffering due to these people.
My former manager is a deeply religious person and am surprised by behaviour. I suppose they're just determined to secure position and draw all staff in with their cunning plan, preserving their empire!
There have been days when I've wondered if I can carry on any longer, but my wonderful family keep me going.
My legals have now turned nasty and can only think about the money I owe them above indemnity and my barrister has abandoned me completely. I now face costs hearing with no legal support. Shameful! Wonder where to get help?
My former colleagues and friends no longer speak to me and I have reliable information that they've been gagged and given pay incentives for their loyalty and warned of possible redundancy.
Don't know which way to turn and feel abandoned!
The british legal system stinks as far as I'm concerned and wouldn't recommend any claimant to go through with case. I was also diagnosed with cancer a short time ago and have to live with constant fear of recurrence and no future. Feeling very let down and bitter. I aim to one day prove the perjury these people commited. I won't stop till mission accomplished! I was honest and accused of not being a credible witness, but then it was just me against many many respondent witnesses who all lied! Didn't stand a chance really. So much for a fair system! Stinks! Very bitter! Thanks for any advice you can offer!

[wales01man]

Re: ET a big let down

We all feel for you but life is not fair and people will lie and cheat to win at all costs as you have found. Rember as long as you know you have been truthful you can live with this defeat and get on with your life .As you have had a Cancer scare you must realise that your health is more important.

Hopefully some LBers can help if it is possible to prove anything against those who lied .

[Johnboy007]

Re: ET a big let down

The letter warning me of costs came from respondent's solicitor, who fought the case rigorously. Behaviour was shocking and drove up costs as much as possible. At one CMD I was informed that solicitor was accused of bringing profession into disrepute. It developed into a battle between legals. Shameful really and now I'm suffering due to these people.
My former manager is a deeply religious person and am surprised by behaviour. I suppose they're just determined to secure position and draw all staff in with their cunning plan, preserving their empire!
There have been days when I've wondered if I can carry on any longer, but my wonderful family keep me going.
My legals have now turned nasty and can only think about the money I owe them above indemnity and my barrister has abandoned me completely. I now face costs hearing with no legal support. Shameful! Wonder where to get help?
My former colleagues and friends no longer speak to me and I have reliable information that they've been gagged and given pay incentives for their loyalty and warned of possible redundancy.
Don't know which way to turn and feel abandoned!
The british legal system stinks as far as I'm concerned and wouldn't recommend any claimant to go through with case. I was also diagnosed with cancer a short time ago and have to live with constant fear of recurrence and no future. Feeling very let down and bitter. I aim to one day prove the perjury these people commited. I won't stop till mission accomplished! I was honest and accused of not being a credible witness, but then it was just me against many many respondent witnesses who all lied! Didn't stand a chance really. So much for a fair system! Stinks! Very bitter! Thanks for any advice you can offer!

Hi friend,
Let me please give you a very good bit of advice, although you may find it very difficult to follow.
Don't let what happened eat away at you.
You will end up bitter and depressed, which will do your family no good what-so-ever.
A similar thing happened to me in a county court, although on a smaller scale.
I did a lot of work for someone who never paid me what was owed.
I took him to court but lost, when all these 'surprise witnesses' turned up and lied through their teeth.
I felt like you, bitter at what had happened.
I felt cheated that I had not got justice.
But in the end, you have to accept what happened, count the cost, learn by the lesson, and get on with your life.
Yes, it is a bitter pill to swallow, but that unfortunately, is what happens in life.
You do have a future my friend, although what it may bring, nobody knows.
At least you have a loving family, and that will be your rod in life.
Family is more important than any material thing.
Proving they lied is a next to impossible task, and unless you let this go, it will eat away at you.
This is the best advice I can give you in these circumstances.

:colbert:John

[friendinneed]

Re: ET a big let down

Thanks for the advice, but I would be getting in with life except for the issue of possible costs order. Very hard to accept when numerous lies told.

[Johnboy007]

Re: ET a big let down

Hi,
Because the ET made an order against you, does not necessarily mean that they will order excessive costs against you.
Just explain that you did tell the truth, but was unable to prove it.
The ET are not blind.
They see this sort of thing go on regularly.
But they are tied to the rules.
If you failed to disprove your opposition, then ET had no other choice, even if they did not believe them.
As for your legal team, I would argue that they should bare their own costs, in view of the fact that it was they who advised you to go on with the case.
Good luck mate..........

[lba40]

Re: ET a big let down

Hi,
If the cost threat has been issued to the ET, then the ET won't necessarily order costs against you. Whether they preferred the Respondents' evidence wouldn't be much of an issue, as long as your claim was reasonable and that you haven't 'acted vexatiously, abusively, disruptively or otherwise unreasonably, or the bringing or conducting of the proceedings by the paying party has been misconceived'. If the Respondents do carry out their threat and apply for a costs order against you, you should get advice. (CAB, Pro Bono?). You could argue that your claim was brought in good faith and also, if the respondents thought you had no chance, why didn't they apply to have it struck out at an earlier stage? Also, if the ET does order costs against you, it will only be for reasonable costs accrued by the Respondents. Regarding your own legal bonzos, I think that if you disagree with their costs, you can have it appraised by, I think the Legal Ombudsman. They will look at the costs your legal team are applying for and only agree for you to pay what is reasonable. Two other things, if you don't have the means to pay then I don't think the ET will make an order against you (if you have a home, it can count as capital towards costs), also, you may want to have a supporting letter from your consultant that a costs order would have a detrimental effect on your health. Just some things to think about if it comes to a costs order, which as said above is quite rare. Very best of luck...let us know how it pans out.
Lba40.

[bluebottle]

Re: ET a big let down

The Legal Ombudsman, as advised, is one port of call. I do not know if you have a case to go to the Bar Standards Board (BSB) and/or Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA). The National Pro Bono Centre acts as a clearing house for the legal pro bono organisations.

If the Respondent and their "witnesses" can be proven to have lied before an ET, I can inform you that it is a criminal offence to fabricate evidence with intent to mislead a tribunal.

[friendinneed]

Re: ET a big let down

Can new evidence be submitted to ET to show I was truthful and reduce potential for costs?

[bluebottle]

Re: ET a big let down

Hi,
If the cost threat has been issued to the ET, then the ET won't necessarily order costs against you. Whether they preferred the Respondents' evidence wouldn't be much of an issue, as long as your claim was reasonable and that you haven't 'acted vexatiously, abusively, disruptively or otherwise unreasonably, or the bringing or conducting of the proceedings by the paying party has been misconceived'. If the Respondents do carry out their threat and apply for a costs order against you, you should get advice. (CAB, Pro Bono?). You could argue that your claim was brought in good faith and also, if the respondents thought you had no chance, why didn't they apply to have it struck out at an earlier stage? Also, if the ET does order costs against you, it will only be for reasonable costs accrued by the Respondents. Regarding your own legal bonzos, I think that if you disagree with their costs, you can have it appraised by, I think the Legal Ombudsman. They will look at the costs your legal team are applying for and only agree for you to pay what is reasonable. Two other things, if you don't have the means to pay then I don't think the ET will make an order against you (if you have a home, it can count as capital towards costs), also, you may want to have a supporting letter from your consultant that a costs order would have a detrimental effect on your health. Just some things to think about if it comes to a costs order, which as said above is quite rare. Very best of luck...let us know how it pans out.
Lba40.

You have raised a very valid point, lba40, which I have highlighted in bold text. Vexatious and/or malicious litigation cuts both ways. The OP needs to seek professional legal advice and should contact the National Pro Bono Centre asap if they are on limited income.

[Johnboy007]

Re: ET a big let down

You can only appeal to a Tribunal on a point of law...... Fact
It is doubtful whether a tribunal would consider new evidence.
You would probably have to pursue this through a solicitor if you have evidence of perjury.

[friendinneed]

Re: ET a big let down

How can a costs order be given when I didn't lie? Surely I should be allowed to show the ET that I didn't lie and that costs would be unreasonable?