Dismissal after being assaulted at work

[Johnboy007]

Re: Dismissal after being assaulted at work

I'm sorry mate, but someone has made a big mistake here.
Investigation meeting?
What the hell is an investigation meeting?
Either they are going to start a Disciplinary hearing (stage one), or they are going to reply to a grievance procedure if you raised one.
Your Union Rep, merely has to issue a statement of what was said to him.
OK, so he may not be able to prove it, but nether-the-less it has been stated.
It will put the company on an uneasy standing.
Seems to me that your Union Rep has a brown tongue.
You stated;
My union rep has no proof that the statement referring to the decision to move to disciplinary procedures has already been made so unfortunately I cannot take that route.


You should have insisted that the company either start disciplinary proceeding against you, or dismiss the case all together, through lack of evidence.

So what happens now?
Keep in touch mate and best wishes,
John

[marionette]

Re: Dismissal after being assaulted at work

surely the wife needs proof that the employee was the person - it is her word against his.
could the employee sue for a. assault. b. disruption to work. c. loss of income. d. stress from the situation.?

[marionette]

Re: Dismissal after being assaulted at work

ps Get CCTV footage asap

[ironman]

Re: Dismissal after being assaulted at work

I am confused also, investigatory meeting??

You have a fact finding meeting first, then you are given notice as to a full disciplinary meeting later with 48 hours notice. We are talking ACAS code of practice now. The employer cannot move you straight from a fact finding to a full disciplinary on the same day. You need to be informed if the offence warrants dismissal if proved in writing prior to the full hearing. I only have ever known this happen once in the past and the employer lost at an ET.

IS YOUR REP FIT FOR PURPOSE??

[Captain Haddock]

Re: Dismissal after being assaulted at work

I don't usually visit this sub-forum but am now subbed. Fascinating. Very interested to see how all this pans out as I am extremely alarmed by your employer's reaction to the event and behaviour towards you.

You were correct to defend yourself.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Dismissal after being assaulted at work

Sorry I haven't replied to any posts recently.
Been away for a few days, but back now and raring to pick up where this left off.....

You do have another option left, but it is not an easy one to follow through. It does take nerve.
Give your employer five days in writing, to either start official disciplinary action against you, or dismiss the case.
If they do neither, then write them a letter saying....

Dear ?
With regards to my employment with ( name of your company ).
Due to the constant stress and uncertainty felt by myself and my family, I must insist that the company either start disciplinary proceeding against me, or dismiss the unproven allegations of alleged gross misconduct forthwith.
I suggest, that you have had ample opportunity to investigate any alleged complaints, and to have come to a decision in this matter.
I am not prepared to put myself or my family, through any more uncertainty, uneasiness or stress any longer.
Working for ( name of your company ) is now becoming unattainable.
I believe my contract of employment does contain an implied duty that neither employer nor employee will act so as to breach the duty of mutual trust and confidence that exists between them without good reason.
Your lack of action and co-operation in dealing with what could be, a serious case of gross misconduct if proven, is I suggest, a breach of trust by ( name of your company ).
If ( name of your company ) do not come to a decision forthwith, I will have no other option but to consider myself to have been constructively dismissed by ( name of your company ), and to seek redress in a tribunal.
I look forward to your response,
Yours sincerely,
etc, etc.


As I said, this is not an easy road to go down, but it is a road.....
Hold your nerve, keep copies of all letters, showing dates, times etc, that you give your employer.
It might just shake them up.
No employer likes going to ACAS, and possibly a tribunal.
Showing that you have given your employer every opportunity to resolve the issue, is a big bonus in claiming unfair dismissal.
Either way, insist NOW, that your employer sort it out, once and for all.
stay in touch,
Johnaw:

[squidgearooney]

Re: Dismissal after being assaulted at work

Hi all,

firstly I want to apologise for the delay in responding. What with the stress of the situation and the injuries (been back to hospital again) and the toll this has taken not just on me but on my family, I have tried, pretty unsuccessfully I must add, to put it out of my head for a few days to try and bring some normality back to my family and spend some time with my young children.

I also want to thank everyone for their posts while I have been offline, especially Johnboy007 - your posts have been very helpful and informative.

So... here is what happened.... (bit long winded maybe so apologies now, get a coffee!!)

I went into the 'investigation meeting' having read every last word of the companies policies and procedures with reference to disciplinary and appeals, I had approximately 10 pages of questions for them to answer.

From the very beginning of the meeting, the person chairing the meeting was constantly referring to my alleged gross misconduct and me bringing the company name into disrepute. The long and short of it is that they state that despite the man assaulting me I should still have walked away - my response was that if the man attacked me face to face then turning my back on him at that point would not have stopped the attack but would simply have given me no chance of defending myself if the attack continued.

They also asked me on numerous occasion what I thought the customers and staff who witnessed it would have thought or felt. I stated that I cannot possibly know what they would have felt especially as the company had told me that I must not speak with any of my colleagues.

This was pretty much the theme of the investigation - not really an investigation as such, more an opportunity for them to make allegations against me and try to get me to accept some blame for the incident which I am not stupid enough to do, mainly because I was not responsible.

In my questions I did raise the point regarding an investigation meeting being part of the disciplinary process, they stated it wasn't but I then pointed out that the companies own policy states:
The stages of our disciplinary procedure are:

• investigation
• disciplinary meeting
• appeal meeting

Clearly the policy states that the investigation is a part of the disciplinary procedure. The denied this. The person chairing the meeting was unable to answer many of my questions and stated that he would have to adjourn and get back to me on these as he hadn't done the initial investigations and fact finding, when I asked who had he refused to say.

I also stated that when I was immediately suspended on the evening of the incident, my letter of suspension stated that 'due to the altercation in store you are suspended pending an investigation', the following day I received another letter of suspension stating that I was suspended pending an investigation into my alleged gross misconduct namely that I had assaulted and verbally abused a customer. When I asked why this reason had changed over night I was told that 'This happened because it was written by someone else with a better understanding of the situation' (sounds odd to me that the manager who was on duty and witnessed it could have a lesser understanding of the situation than the manager who came in the next day and was told about it). I asked if they had gathered and reviewed all the evidence, witness statements, CCTV etc by the following day when they made this decision to which he responded 'We gather facts until we have enough it reaches tipping point and we know it needs to go to investigation', but he stated that they had not at that point gathered all the information. I then again referred them to the company policy which states 'if AFTER the facts have been gathered the manager still has questions to ask they may invite you to a meeting to help them investigate', he could not respond in a coherent sentence to this point.

I asked if the company and the store management team had any concern for my wellbeing, condition or my injuries to which he predictably replied 'yes'. When I the asked why nobody from the store management team or company had bothered to contact me to ask me how I was he stated 'we have emailed you and telephoned you', however, when I pointed out that I have copies of every email and recordings of every conversation between them and myself, he was unable to answer me. He did however state 'we have spoken to your wife' but when I asked who said you could discuss this private and confidential matter with my wife he did not reply.

A number of other small details were covered but I don't really think it will be of any help to you if I list them all (I will if you really want).

The long and short of it is that they do not have any evidence to suggest that I did anything wrong but they are basically trying to get me out of the company, simply because where I live and work is a small town and everyone in the town already knows about the assault simply via word of mouth.

They then adjourned the meeting but due to the amount of notes taken in the meeting (apparently 25 pages) they said they would adjourn to a later date. I was not given any idea of when that adjournment was to, nor was I asked to check and sign the notes. If this matter goes to a disciplinary I am going to state that I do not agree with the notes and want the copy that I agreed and signed to say were accurate.

It has now been 5 days. No contact has been made with me regarding this adjournment. I have telephoned the store this morning to ask for an update but was told that the person is not on duty and will be asked to contact me when they are.

I am certain that there are points here that I have not told you about and if so please do feel free to ask and I will tell you as much as I can.

Happy Wednesday everyone

[ironman]

Re: Dismissal after being assaulted at work

Well any possible Dismissal will be unlawful as they have not follwed the minimum stadards as to the ACAS code of practice

[squidgearooney]

Re: Dismissal after being assaulted at work

Well any possible Dismissal will be unlawful as they have not follwed the minimum stadards as to the ACAS code of practice

Hi Ironman, please could you confirm to which part(s) this applies? Thanks

[squidgearooney]

Re: Dismissal after being assaulted at work

Additional information for you....

at this store there is a store manager, assistant store manager, and then several department managers who operate as duty managers when the first two are not in store. The assistant manager was supposed to be chairing the investigation meeting with myself.

However, in the week or so leading up to the meeting I had had contact with this assistant manager by telephone (all recorded) and email, the main gist of which was that there were a few small bits of information that I wanted prior to the meeting. It got to within 48 hours of the meeting and I had not received the information so I contacted the store again. The email response I got was rather rude and aggressive from the assistant manager, I remained calm and replied and again his response was, in my opinion, needlessly rude. I therefore sent an email complaint with regards to the assistant managers attitude to the store manager, I sent this the day before the meeting and I addressed it 'Confidential - FAO (store managers name) only.

The next morning when I attended the meeting, one of the duty managers chaired the meeting and he stated that he was chairing the meeting because of the formal complaint that they had received with regards to the assistant manager. This I had expected, had informed my union rep of and also was prepared to wait if required for alternative arrangements to be made.

Later that day I then found out that the store manager was actually on holiday and had been on holiday all of that week. This made me wonder how they knew the content of a clearly marked confidential email if the store manager had not read it. Confidentiality had been breached.

I again telephoned the store and spoke to a different duty manager and she confirmed that the store manager was on holiday until Monday (this was Friday).

On Monday morning I also phoned the store manager and asked him about the email I had sent for his attention and he confirmed that he had not yet read it.

To me this sounds like a no brainer.... surely I have a case hear of breach of confidentiality?

[ironman]

Re: Dismissal after being assaulted at work

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2175

[squidgearooney]

Re: Dismissal after being assaulted at work

Thanks Ironman, I will read in full :tinysmile_grin_t:

[Johnboy007]

Re: Dismissal after being assaulted at work

Hi,
Breach of confidentiality will be hard to prove.
Because you headed your letter FAO (your store manager), does not mean that it will not be read by anyone else.
If he was on holiday, then it is reasonable to assume that he has authorised someone to act in his place in the event of him being absent from work.
The company must carry on trading.
I believe ACAS would back them on this issue.
It seems to me that this case is one big headache for your company.
They appear to have lost the plot and are clutching at straws.
Again, I can only stress to you the importance of following the procedures as written down in your company book.
You have thrown the ball back into their court, and now they must act accordingly.
Either throw it out, or start disciplinary proceedings against you.
Try not to complicate the case any further, but let them 'hang themselves' on mistakes in procedures that they make.
You stated QUOTE:

From the very beginning of the meeting, the person chairing the meeting was constantly referring to my alleged gross misconduct and me bringing the company name into disrepute. The long and short of it is that they state that despite the man assaulting me I should still have walked away - my response was that if the man attacked me face to face then turning my back on him at that point would not have stopped the attack but would simply have given me no chance of defending myself if the attack continued.

They also asked me on numerous occasion what I thought the customers and staff who witnessed it would have thought or felt. I stated that I cannot possibly know what they would have felt especially as the company had told me that I must not speak with any of my colleagues.

This was pretty much the theme of the investigation - not really an investigation as such, more an opportunity for them to make allegations against me and try to get me to accept some blame for the incident which I am not stupid enough to do, mainly because I was not responsible.
From the very beginning of the meeting, the person chairing the meeting was constantly referring to my alleged gross misconduct and me bringing the company name into disrepute. The long and short of it is that they state that despite the man assaulting me I should still have walked away - my response was that if the man attacked me face to face then turning my back on him at that point would not have stopped the attack but would simply have given me no chance of defending myself if the attack continued.

They also asked me on numerous occasion what I thought the customers and staff who witnessed it would have thought or felt. I stated that I cannot possibly know what they would have felt especially as the company had told me that I must not speak with any of my colleagues.

This was pretty much the theme of the investigation - not really an investigation as such, more an opportunity for them to make allegations against me and try to get me to accept some blame for the incident which I am not stupid enough to do, mainly because I was not responsible.

You seem to have made good and valid points and I should stick to this way of dealing with the case.
The company do have a legal duty of care to an employee, and it is also your right to use reasonable force to defend yourself in the case of physical attack on your person.
Stick to this at all times, and see what their response is.
It will certainly not be easy for them to give you an acceptable and lawful answer.
Just keep throwing the ball back into their court until it is game, set and match to yourself.
Good luck mate...

[squidgearooney]

Re: Dismissal after being assaulted at work

Hi Johnboy007,

thanks again for your input, I agree that you are probably correct with regards to the confidentiality issue so I won't pursue this line, not at this moment anyway.

My union rep and I agree that what they want is to just end this matter but they now do not know how. Fortunately, I have just been offered a better job with another company and on more money so I am now not really in any desire to return to work for this company, however, I am also not prepared to let them just treat me in this manner and walk away so I am going to hold back on handing in my notice. Funnily enough when I spoke to the HR department with regards to my notice period (it is 4 weeks but staff have been allowed to leave previously with just 2 weeks if there is enough staff to cover this), they rang me back stating that they would accept my notice with no leave period.... how convenient eh? But now that I have this confirmed I am keeping a letter of resignation in my pocket and, should I feel the need arises, I will simply hand it in based on their previous agreement. All worked out well with how this new job fell into place but it was just pure luck. I will make them sweat and give me a decision.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Dismissal after being assaulted at work

If you are sure that you want to leave your company for this other job, then why not see if you can get a deal out of them.
Tell them that you will not pursue the matter any further if they agree a remuneration package for all the inconvenience and stress they have given you, and if they do, you will leave their employment voluntarily.
Also make it a condition that they will not give any new employer you may have in the future , any negative reference.
It's worth a go, and I'm sure the company would jump at the chance of an easy 'get out'.
Put your request in writing....... Keep a copy...
Good luck mate.