Employed or Self Employed ?

[hotmrw]

Hello everyone, I am so confused with this I am hoping someone can help me, I will be as brief as I can be.

For the past 3-4 years I have worked as a Door Supervisor, at the same ( and only club ) I worked set nights, set times, hourley pay,
and have worked nowhere else during this period, I was told what to do, Example, stand on the door, stand upstairs, stand in the smoking yard, go to town with the assistant manager and check if other clubs are busy, I had my own accountant, have been a sole trader ( Security Company ) and within the last 4 weeks have opened a Ltd company Security Company, although I have no other work and never have either as a sole trader or Ltd Company, I invoiced the owner with the amount of hours worked and total cost with an invoice from my sole trader or ltd company, one other thing is that I had another door supervisors pay on my cheque, when the cheque cleared I gave him his wages, now I have spoken to ACAS about my rights, and they said the fact I have another doormans wages on my cheque means nothing, the CAB said because of how I work etc etc etc I am an employee, even though I have a sole trader/ltd company, one solicitor said I have all the signs of an employee but the fact other peoples pay goes on my cheque indicates I am a company, I am so confused with all this, I have been dismissed so unfairly, and wrongly by my employer ( or new management ) more to the point, I was told of my dismissal over the phone with no reason given after years of loyalty professionalism and reliability, I have clearly been pooped on from a great height and don't want to start greivence letters/ tribunal proceedings if I have no chance of winning, can anyone advise?

[wales01man]

Re: Employed or Self Employed ?

Was tax and NI deducted by your employer

[hotmrw]

Re: Employed or Self Employed ?

No it was not deducted

[wales01man]

Re: Employed or Self Employed ?

Others will know better but seems you may be classed as self employed together with the tax benefits you should have gained with a good accountant problem comes as of now when its time for getting benefits or taking action for dismisall

[Amethyst]

Re: Employed or Self Employed ?

I agree the rest sounds like you would be classed as an employee however....

'' I had another door supervisors pay on my cheque,''

I think that is relevant, as it would intimate that the other door supervisor was your employee. When you invoiced the firm did you invoice for just your own hours or for his as well?

[hotmrw]

Re: Employed or Self Employed ?

Invoices had number of door staff, which was almost always 2, days worked, start and finish times, total hours, for all door staff, and total cost
I was the head doorman so I sorted everything out

[teaboy2]

Re: Employed or Self Employed ?

You were invoicing the club for your hours you worked their. You were therefore a self a self employed freelance security guard, so to speak, that paid your own NI and Tax. Once you became a limited company, it was the limited company invoicing the club instead, as a managing director you are no longer self employed but an employee of your limited company (not the club) and the TAX and NI is paid via the limited company.

As per the other persons wages, where they included in the invoices to the club both before and after you set up a limited company? If so then you need to stop accepting payment for his wages, and tell the club they need to pay him directly as a self employed person. Otherwise you may find that that person is now your employee and you would have to pay TAX and NI contributions from his wages on his behalf.

So you need to get in writing, either by drawing up a contract stating the other person is self employed and is responsible for paying his/her own tax and NI. But you also need to speak to the club first and see if they have a contract employing him/her as self employed contractor. Under no circumstances as a limited company, should you be accepting payments for another person or work not associated with your company.

So you were never an employee of the club from the way you have described how you invoiced them and paid your own NI and Tax. So you have not been dismissed, in fact the club has simply terminated the contract between you and your limited company (Key Point - Was their a written contract between you and the club?). Has the other person also had his services terminated by the club? Either way, stop taking payments for the other person.

As your a limited company, my best advice for you now, would be to work on marketing your company, handing out leaflets to clubs and pubs offering yourself as a door supervisor, you may need to lower your asking price to be competitive and to get the work you need, and also contact some of your colleagues in the industry and ask them to come work for your company. Alternatively, close the limited company and go back to being self employed, as there is far less red tape involved.

[Amethyst]

Re: Employed or Self Employed ?

Invoices had number of door staff, which was almost always 2, days worked, start and finish times, total hours, for all door staff, and total cost
I was the head doorman so I sorted everything out

And what has happened to the other door staff now you have been dismissed? (ie if they were your employees and they have stopped requiring the services of your company then they go too?)


(sorry teaboy didn't see your post - but yes all that too lol)

[hotmrw]

Re: Employed or Self Employed ?

They got rid of me and the other Door Supervisor, they did ask him back but he refused, he now works at another Nightclub, I keep getting told different things, the only face to face meeting I have had was with an old guy at the CAB who said in his opinion I was clearly an employee
and that I have been wrongly, and unfairly dismissed, my problem is I was well and truly sh*t on from a great height, and I don't want to start a case I have no chance of winning, but I feel I should stand up for my rights, the injustice of it all has really got me down. it is distinguishing my employment status that seems to be the problem, all tests done online indicate 100% an employee however one solicitor told me that the fact I get another doormans wages indicates I am not an employee, so lost with all this

[Amethyst]

Re: Employed or Self Employed ?

Who paid the NI and PAYE of the other doormen ?

[hotmrw]

Re: Employed or Self Employed ?

I have no idea who paid there NI and PAYE.