help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

[Tools]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

Could you please type up the termination letter. The response you want to send does need a few edits/additions and it would help to see the letter she received, minus any identifiable details of course.

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

yep see below:

dear ******,

I am writing to confirm the outcome of the disciplinary hearing held on 12th November 2013.

After considering all the facts, and following a full investigation, a decision was taken to dismiss you form employment with the company.

Conclusion:

Following the disciplinary hearing i conclude as follows:

People (witnesses) should've been spoken with sooner. Your comments are taken on bard, however no specific timelines are stated in our procedure.

Process around accompaniment in investigative discussions. Your comments are taken on board. Should you have requested accompaniment this would have been granted.

The use of the word f***ing is disputed, however the use of the word Paki is clear and acknowledged by you and witnesses.

You understand and acknowledge the term used is offensive and has a racist connotation.

The intent of the language used isn't clear - this has different views. However the company deem this to be unacceptable, irrelevant of it's intent.

Regarding use of witnesses - age and gender would not be taken into consideration as that in itself would be discriminatory.

***'s comments about what they expected have no bearing in the hearing and with all information, professionally, the process is followed.

Calls wouldn't have been recorded as systems were down. ***'s conduct will be looked at in isolation and has no bearing on this outcome.

Code of conduct information was issued and receipted through induction and acknowledged.

Following the use of the word Paki, the company cannot risk a repetition of the use of this word. It is deemed as an act of gross misconduct for the use of offensive and discriminative language.

Reason for Dismissal:

The use of discriminatory language in the workplace

Your dismissal takes effect immediately and your employment is therefore terminated on 12th November 2013. You are not entitled to notice or payment in lieu of this.

You have the right to appeal against the decision, and any such appeal should be made in writing to hr within 5 working days of receipt of the letter confirming this outcome.

[Tools]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

OK thanks, I assume when the letter was received and signed for, a date of its receipt was recorded? If so she has 5 working days from then.

Will work on something and get back to you asap, but in the meantime I welcome any other input.

Would also be helpful to see a copy/scan of the companies code of conduct document please, you can email it to admin@legalbeagles.info if you would rather it didn't appear publicly

[charitynjw]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

It might be of interest/use to see how the MOD dealt with a similar situation concerning a certain someone else.

It might be an idea to mention that in your grievance letter, plus mention that there are many possible and less draconian measures which could have been taken; dismissal, particularly for gross misconduct, should not be, and as you can see, is not the action of a reasonable employer* in cases like this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...Paki-slur.html

*Important to use this term, as an Employment Tribunal must consider what a 'reasonable employer' would do under similar circumstances.

[Tools]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

Following our discussions mystic, below as discussed. I would advise she hands this in in person on Monday and gets a receipt/written acknowledgement. Please check spellings etc and make sure you are happy with it beforehand.

Dear ***** HR Dept.


I thank you for your letter confirming the outcome of the disciplinary hearing held on 12^th November 2013. Your letter, dated ** November 2013, being sent by recorded delivery was only received by myself on the 19^th November 2013.



This letter, dated ** November 2013, is notice that I wish to appeal your decision of summary dismissal.



I also request that my appeal be heard and investigated by persons independent to the original disciplinary and investigation as is appropriate.


My grounds for appeal are

• The complainant had insufficient grounds on which to complain and did so for spurious reasons.
  
• I was not fully informed of my rights prior to and during the procedures.
  
• The process of investigation was biased and did not follow company procedure.
  
• The context, intent and interpretation and accuracy of language used is strongly disputed.
  
• The action of summary dismissal is appealed, I submit that a lesser action such as final written warning would be more approriate from a reasonable employer.

I can assure the company that any fear of repetition is unfounded and I deeply regret any offence caused when none was intended.

I wish to extend my fullest apologies to anyone I may have unintentionally offended.. The word “Paki” I believed to be an inoffensive abbreviation such as “Brit”, “Scot”, “Aussie”,“Afghan” etc. I now fully understand that such a term may be deemed as offensive or discriminatory and agree the use of such words is unacceptable.


I await your response with details of when you wish me to attend for further investigations/appeal hearing.


Yours sincerely


Friend with no internet

[Inca]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

Oi,,you saucy gits !! I've just spotted all your cheeky posts ^^^^^ up there msl:

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

Thanks for your letter Tools but unfortunately my friend got really panicky and sent the letter she wrote as she insisted that they wouldn't accept the fact that she had received the letter late and that they would refuse her an appeal on those grounds. I did try to explain what you said about it being signed for and that was proof enough but she can be stuborn sometimes once she has an idea in her head.

I will give your letter to her as it has some excellent points for her to elaborate on if they grant an appeal, she has not heard anything yet. I think she expects that the decision will be the same as she doesn't really have much in the way of new evidence.

will keep you posted

[Tools]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

That`s OK I understand her panic.

As you suggest, she can use some of the points to help her.

Keep us informed of what happens, either way. Tell her we wish her luck.

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

just to update you, my friend has been granted an appeal for Monday 9th December

[Tools]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

Thanks for the update, fingers crossed for her.

[charitynjw]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

Good news.

As Tools says, please keep us posted.

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

thank tools and charity,

below is my friends statement that she has written for her appeal.

Could one of you have a quick read and see what you think? thanks



I wish to make it clear that what i said was in no way defamatory, discriminatory or racist, to any employee or colleague past or present at.

I beleive the context in a phrase has everything to do with how that phrase is meant, i was simply stating a fact about something that happened a long time ago in reference to 3 persons from pakistan, had it been 3 scottish people i would of used the word scots, or australian people i would of used the word aussies.

I would like to draw your attenetion to a phrase in M's statement " If it had been B he would of understood as he is young and immature" I would take this statement to mean that, had it been B that had said what i did then no action would of been taken, which i deem to be of significant importance in this appeal, as if you are offended by something that one person says then you should be offended no matter who says it.o

I would also like to bring to your attention to the actions of a large reasonable employer recently in the news dealing with a similar situation, The MoD have recently had to deal with a similar case with regards to a famous person using the phrase "my little paki friend" this individual faced a disciplinary procedure as per MoD Discrimination policy as i have done, I beleive as a reasonable employer they came up with a suitable punishment that did not end in dismissal because what was said was not meant as defamatory, discrimintive or racist.

Given the opportunity to do this day over i would of course (in hindsight) not of said anything at all especiallly knowing that although nothing was meant by what i said that it could be interpreted to be meant completely differently.

I would like to take this opportunity to apologise to the company for all uninteded offense and assure you that if you would reconsider your decision and possibly reduce my dismissal to a final written warning and any other appropriate non dismissive action that this would never happen again.

[mariefab]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

I'd change the first sentence to:

I wish to make it clear that what i said was in no way intended to be defamatory, discriminatory or racist, to any employee or colleague past or present

& if your friend only used the p word once:

Given the opportunity to say the phrase over I would of course (in hindsight) not have used the offending word. Especially knowing that, although nothing discriminatory was meant by what I said, it could be interpreted to be meant completely differently.

Also, in the dismissal letter, they said that the phrase in M's statement wasn't taken into account.

[Tools]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

Re-written, up to your friend if she wishes to use it.

I wish to extend my fullest apologies to anyone I may have unintentionally offended. The word “Paki” I believed to be an inoffensive abbreviation such as “Brit”, “Scot”, “Aussie”,“Afghan” etc. and did not intend it to be taken as such as no racist, offensive or discriminatory connotations were intended. However, I now fully understand that such a term may be deemed as offensive or discriminatory and agree the use of such words is unacceptable.

I would like to draw your attention to a phrase in M's statement " If it had been B he would of understood as he is young and immature" I would take this statement to mean that, had it been B that had said what I did then no action would of been taken, which I deem to be of significant importance in this appeal. Had M genuinely believed the term to be considered offensive, or racist, then they would have raised a complaint no matter who had said it. Fingers crossed for her tomorrow, hopefully she will make it through Christmas. Again, let us know how she gets on.

The action of summary dismissal is appealed, I submit that a lesser action such as final written warning would be more appropriate from a reasonable employer, notably one recent high profile case involving the MoD where a serving officer referred to a colleague as "my little paki friend". This individual faced a disciplinary procedure as per MoD Discrimination policy as i have done, I beleive as a reasonable employer they came up with a suitable punishment that did not result in summary dismissal because what was said was not meant as defamatory, discrimintive or racist.

I ask you to reconsider your decision and reduce my dismissal to a lesser action, possibly to a final written warning or any other appropriate non dismissive action.

I can assure the company that any fear of repetition is unfounded and I deeply regret any offence caused when none was intended.

[mysticphoenix666]

Re: help for a friend with no internet, regarding racism accusation

Thanks Tools,

I am going with her in the morning and will be waiting outside for her as her colleague can no longer attend due to a slipped disc so i will print this and give it to her.

It does sound a lot more professional than what she has written, although i think she did very well as a start with the help already given from yourself.

I don't think she will be given a decision tomorrow as it says in their policy that it will be given in writing, but i will inform of the outcome.

Again thanks for your help