Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

[Phill]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

This is true. I settled a case (not ET) at lunchtime after the opponent had heard enough during the morning in court and decided to surrender rather than risk defeat and even more costs :yield:

how did you guarantee you would recieve the money at such short notice,we dont trust them at all.

[Eloise01]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

You don't and you can't - not even if you win the tribunal. But lets not go there until it happens because most employers do pay up, and I've had a traumatic 24 hours with an idiot on exactly this subject in reverse!

[Phill]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

Ok sorry sounds like its been a long day,

[Eloise01]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

It has! Don't worry about what hasn't happened. There's no point. Keep on course and take it step by step. Worrying about what might happen after you win / get offered a settlement is pointless because neither of those things have happened yet. If a settlement is offered, just make sure that it's brokered by ACAS (that just means, ACAS sorts it out on their paperwork). Don't deal with the employer directly on your own.

[Phill]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

thank you x

[Phill]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

what strength does a non verbatim letter hold in the tribunal if the author isnt there ?

[Eloise01]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

What is a non verbatim letter? Or more to the point, what do you think it is?

[Phill]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

in this instance it is (i think it is) a written copy of a telephone conversation but not word for word it says non verbatim on it ??

please be gentle Eloise there is a reason im a builder and not a office worker x

[Eloise01]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

Ah right - you mean it isn't a letter at all? That was what had me confused . So you means a note of a telephone conversation? Can't say - I don't know what it says or what the context is. You're going to have to give details.

[Phill]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

ok its tricky but will do my best, a phone call was made to someone that someone was then asked to put the contents of the call into writting so they supplied an email titled non verbatim log of telephone conversation, this was interesting reading to say the least as it is only 1 half of a conversation so apart from being out of context it is full of errors, Hows that ?

[Eloise01]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

Not entirely illuminating? I assume that these notes are part of the employers evidence? For what reason are they relying on this as evidence? And evidence of what?

[Phill]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

yes this is employers evidence. one day when dad was at work he had an argument with the boss. dad went home early feeling unwell he had raised health and safety concerns at work verbally and by letter to his boss on previous occasions and this was what the argument that day was mainly about. when he got home he phoned the companys main customer as he always did whenever he was off ill or on holiday so that they could contact him if there was any problems with orders being shipped. whilst on the phone to the customer the customer informed dad saying that his boss had been on the phone saying dad had walked out on his job. dad therefore explained he had had a row regarding lack of space and concerns for the big delivery coming from that customer in a couple of days time, this caused dad to have concerns which had been ongoing regarding health and safety issues with the boss. dad finished the call with if you need any help with anything im at home contact me as needed. after learning that his boss believed that he had walked out on his job he then emailed his boss explaining that he had gone home from work early because he felt unwell and was stressed to learn i had phoned him at work that day with the news of my cancer returning what with feeling unwell the bad news and the argument he went home. he told his boss "i hope to feel well enough to return to work on monday but i am not prepared to return to work in the warehouse in which i believe will be unsafe to carry out my specific job description and keep up the high standards of service that the customer has been used to. if you are unable to assure me that the health and safety of mick (co worker) and myself and other members of staff working under my supervision can be assured then i will have no option but to seek further advice on this matter"

[Phill]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

after receiving this email his boss returned an email saying " firstly i am sorry to hear that your son is unwell i hope his operation later this month is successful however putting personal problems to one side i am advised that your language and behaviour in front of senior members of staff were unacceptable and unprofessional. in fact you became so heated that David (senior member) advised you to take half an hour to clam down and then discuss the matter in the office. however you took it upon yourself to leave the premises with a parting remark in th office of ive had enough im going home. you then state n your email that you are "not prepared to return to work in the warehouse" you have therefore terminated your employment as of today's date. you will be paid any holiday pay and we will forward your p45 next week. with regard to your final comment re health and safety i can assure you i take teh helth and safety of all of my staff very seriously" regards the boss.


firstly eloise can you tell me are we right to treat this as a dismissal letter, i will explain the non vertamin call log in a minute

[Phill]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

after receiving this dad said he would be taking the company to a tribrunal for unfair dismissal. their reply was we have revisited your letter and i misinterpreted your intentions. please come back to work tuesday so we can discuss the matter. so dad took the boss up on his invite went in to seek the reassuarnces he wanted. he was then escorted off the premises saying an investigation would be taking place regarding the argument. to cut this bit short for your sake eloise ultimately he was told he was being given a warning for the argument and sacked for gross misconduct on the grounds of inappropriate contact with customer this is what they want to use the non verbatum telephone log for.

[Eloise01]

Re: Former employers failure to disclose, please help x

Hmmm. I don't think it is a dismissal letter, no. I think the relevant question is whether your fathers actions could be deemed a resignation, and if the employer could reasonably rely on that as a resignation. I don't have the full story and the full context, and in the end the tribunal determines whether it is or is not a resignation - but yes, I think there are grounds to argue that this was a resignation. And I think that the employer would be justified in relying on the message that they received - they do not have to produce the author as a witness for this to be included. Refusing to return to work was a very foolish thing to do in any circumstances - the correct thing to have done was to attend work, and if the alleged breach of health and safety was not dealt with, to raise a grievance / refuse to carry out the work until it was. I think the argument is marginal - it could go either way depending on the entire context. But it is certainly not as safe as you appear to have thought. His actions in walking out could be deemed to be a verbal resignation, but the fact that he later added to that by writing an e-mail saying that he refused to attend work, effectively, unless he got his own way - that is not good. That is not the way to deal with grievances.

I ought to say that I hope the former employer does not know about the conversation he had with the client after walking out. That conversation was quite certainly inappropriate, and had the employer not treated your fathers actions as resignation, could have constututed gross misconduct and led to his dismissal. As it is, that did not happen, but this might be pertinant information for the tribunal to consider if your father wins, when it comes to discussing remedies.