blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

[miliitant]

i cannot say to much as this is ongoing so ill be as brief as i can

1/ manager alledged assault by a staff member
2/ staff member suffers from asperges syndrome
3/ manager involves police and person arrested
4/ staff member bailed for 2 weeks
5/ police have extended bail by 2 more weeks

now this staff member has a bullying and harassment claim outstanding which is being delt with by union headquarters (managers do not understand aspergers)

witness statements to the police dont add up to the managers statement. i think the cctv images back up what the staff member has stated and the managers is a fabrication of events.

the reason i am asking blue bottle is we now have criminal and employment law crossing over each other. the employeer cannot go down a disciplinary until the police have finished their investigations. i think the police will close down the investigation due to insurfficient evidence

what i need to know is

can i get a copy of the cctv image prior to the ending of the police investigation.
i know i can do an DSAR, but thats 40 days

i can demand it if the employeer goes for a disciplinary after the police investigation through the IR framework but i need to see what is on the CCTV, which is digital recording

[bluebottle]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

Hi Militant,

Asperger's Syndrome is a disability and is recognised by the NHS.

From what is said in the post, I presume that the Asperger's sufferer is the victim of bullying and harassment. The allegation made by the manager appears to be further evidence of this. Making a false report to the police, resulting in someone being wrongfully arrested, is not only a criminal offence, but harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

It is normal practice for the police to bail someone whilst they are investigating an alleged offence, unless there are reasons indicating that bail not be granted.

I note that disciplinary action is mentioned. Who is likely to be disciplined, the Asperger's sufferer or the manager?

Section 35, Data Protection Act 1998 can be used to obtain the CCTV images you require.

Keep me informed should you need any further assistance or clarification.

BB

[miliitant]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

sorry i have not updated, it is the aspergers collegue who is being disciplined

he got today a registered envelope stating that a disciplinary hearing will be monday.

now we have not had any statements from witnesess, video image, nothing
that i can handle as i will just get the case adjourned on monday

what i would like to know is how can they go to a disciplinary when the police have extended his bail as their is not enough evidence at the moment to charge him

i know employment law is only reasonable doubt on behalf of the employer but being a police investigation running along side as well, seems double standards

i am getting info third hand at the moment from the office rep

[teaboy2]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

Will if they sack the employee then it will be unfair dismissal, Disability discrimination, Bullying and harassment in the workplace. Thats not to mention false accusation resulting in the employer being arrested by the police. All of which will add up to a nice little compensation payout at the employers expense.

[bluebottle]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

I would be inclined to put the police officers dealing with the case in the picture as to what is going on. In my experience, if they get the merest whiff of being used for anything even slightly unlawful or illegal, the employer and person who made the original allegations could find themselves being taken into custody. Until the police have completed their investigations, the employer would be very ill-advised to do anything. Do you know if the police know about the bullying and harassment? If the employer fails or refuses to hand over copies of evidence, I would be inclined to use Section 3, Protection from Harassment Act 1997 to slap an ex parte (without notice) injunction on the employer, manager and any employee of the employer, plus any third party, against engaging in any course of conduct against the employee with Asperger's Syndrome. Then I'd be inclined to slap a claim in on the employer and the bully/bullies for damages. This will have to be done within three working days of the injunction being granted. The injunction will, at a later date, be made permanent by a Circuit Judge. Let me know how the foregoing sounds to you.

The Court of Appeal ruling in the case of Mjrowski -v- Guys and St Thomas's NHS Trust 2005 could prove very useful in this case. Check it out with the union legal advisers.

[miliitant]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

i have just been informed that he will not be attending the conduct code meeting on monday as his GP has now signed him off with depression

they wil not like that but tough

[miliitant]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

my local rep has just shown me the digital cctv image, its convient the main camera has malfunctioned

what i can make out on the other camera is the manager being the instigator and the member was defending himself. i used the step by step (frame) method

what i need is to blow up a section, is their any program out their i can use to blow up a digital cctv images

i am viewing the images on a pen drive and the images have been downloaded to a vista player

[bluebottle]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

my local rep has just shown me the digital cctv image, its convient the main camera has malfunctioned

what i can make out on the other camera is the manager being the instigator and the member was defending himself. i used the step by step (frame) method

what i need is to blow up a section, is their any program out their i can use to blow up a digital cctv images

i am viewing the images on a pen drive and the images have been downloaded to a vista player

Yes, there is, Militant. There are also companies who specialise in forensic video enhancement. I'm going to send you a PM.

[bluebottle]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

PM sent.

[miliitant]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

just giving an update on this

my member any myself went to the business occupational health offices today for an appointment with the doctor. straight away she started asking questions on the alleged incident

i step in and mention sub judice

this matter is still subject to criminal proceedings and we are not allowed to talk about it

i state we are at this appointment to discuse the stress and depression this incident has put him under and his fitness to attend a disciplinary meeting

he is reporting back tomorow to answer his bail, me thinks they will be dropping it now as the video evidence does not match the managers elaborated version of events

my member is not suspended but signed off by his gp

occupational health are now going to write to his GP for a report

i will then be going for the throat on this manager, lets see him get arrested, fingerprinted etc for his actions

then i will hit him and the business in the civil courts for damages

[bluebottle]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

That is if the police and CPS don't hit the manager with charges of Making A False Report, Wasteful Employment of Police and Assault (depends on how bad) on the member.

As for the doctor, I would speak to the union solicitors about this as the doctor may have committed a breach of the GMC's Code of Conduct. I would certainly get the union solicitor to speak to the police or CPS, depending on which stage the case has reached, about the doctor asking questions about the incident. They could also enquire about the member's bail. In my considered judgement, as there is no case to answer against the member, there is no justification for him remaining on bail.

Whether the manager gets arrested will depend on whether the member sustained injury as a result of the manager's actions, whether the member wishes to prefer charges against the manager and whether the CPS feel there is a case to answer for making a false report and wasting the time of the police.

As far as civil litigation against the business and manager goes, I would suggest the following -

1. Wrongful Arrest;
2. Unlawful Detention;
3. False Imprisonment*;
4. Defamation of Character and Reputation**;
5. Discrimination**;
6. Harassment;
7. Malicious Falsehood**.

* Will apply if the member was detained in a cell at the police station.
** Check with union solicitor on this.

Hope this of help.

[miliitant]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

i am in regular discussion with the equality officer at my union HQ in london
legal services are on the sidelines until the police reach a decision

i have been told off the record that unlawful detention/false arrest works out at £250.00 per minute

he has answered his bail three times now
each time he is arrested and thrown in a cell untill interviewed

angry does not begin to show how i feel on this matter

[bluebottle]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

Miliitant,

I am very concerned your member is being arrested and detained in a cell every time he answers to bail. This should not be happening. And why do they keep interviewing him when the evidence shows the contrary to be the case? Methinks this matter needs referring to a senior officer of at least Assistant Chief Constable level. The actions of the police may well amount to Wrongful Arrest, Unlawful Detention and False Imprisonment. What reason do the police give for arresting, detaining and interviewing your member each time he answers his bail?

[miliitant]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

HE HAS REPORTED TO THE POLICE STATION TONIGHT AT 7PM AS INSTRUCTED

they have only just taken him inn through a side door

he has been re-arrested again, the copper said they have to review the security video.

for christ sake, they have had three months to do this

tell me bluebottle

if someone answers their bail, by what authority can they keep arresting him

[bluebottle]

Re: blubottle needed/police action/employment disciplinary issue

You've got the old grey matter working, Miliitant!

The only reasons I can think of, off the top of my head, are -

1. Failing to report at stipulated time; or
2. Committing offence(s) whilst on bail; or
3. Failing to comply with conditions of bail.

The excuse the officers have given is pretty weak and I would be inclined to escalate this matter straight to Chief Constable level. Forget the station Superintendent, District Commander and Assistant Chief Constable. I can see no justification for re-arresting your member each time he answers his bail. As your member has Asperger's Syndrome, this is classed as a learning disability and, as such, under PACE, he should have an Appropriate Adult with him when he is being interviewed. This is a requirement of PACE. If the officers know he has Asperger's, not only are they in breach of PACE, so is the Custody Officer and Duty Officer. I would be inclined to get the union solicitors onto this straightaway.