Re: Repayment of recruitment/training costs in job offer contract

[Student7]

Hello, I have just received a new job offer and contract and I have concerns about the clause regarding the repayment of recruitment/training costs. While I know this is sometimes common practise it seems unusual and weirdly worded in this case.

The short of it is that the Company invested significant money in my recruitment and will incur more costs in order for me to become familiar with Company's products. Now based on a comment I made about possibly being willing to offer a committment to them in my interview, if I leave within 12months I have to pay £4000, within 12 - 24 months, £3000 and between 24 - 36, £2000.

This seems unfair as up till 3 years I shouldn't be required to pay back recruitment fees and it seems like I am having to pay back costs for informal, the job, product specific training that won't benefit me anywhere other than in that role.
I would understand 3rd party formal training, resulting in qualifications or memberships but they haven't specified or provided a breakdown of anything.

I do want the job but haven't signed anything yet and wondering how best to approach this situation.

Hope someone can provide advice, thanks in advance.

[Amethyst]

Well, it does sound like you negotiated yourself into it - what kind of commitment did you have in mind ? This ensures you stay for 3 years. Check it runs from date of employment start and not from the completion of the training. You should also check that the repayment is only if you resign rather than if they dismiss you or make you redundant. 3 years tiered repayment is pretty standard when there is a lot of training/investment in a new hire. I'll tag Ula for you as I am not sure on the evidence of the cost of training that is in house, job specific that's required.

[Student7]

I thought it a throwaway question during the interview and first job out of uni, wanting the role I didn't want to say no or that I'd possibly leave within a year or two so I answered in a vague way, something a long the lines of "if the company culture is what I think it's like and I'm still happy and developing then yes I don't see why I wouldn't want to stay".
Didn't think they'd put it in writing, it almost traps you for 3 years, I didn't have anything specific in mind but anything can happen in life.
It says whether you resign or are dismissed so whatever the reason is for your departure basically.
In such cases is it possible to negotiate or amend such clauses in contracts & if not would they allow options for installment repayment plans or would they want it in one go?
Thank you for your response Amethyst.

[Amethyst]

What is the notice period given in the contract ?

Also check any restrictions after you leave - anything about working for a competitor or in the same industry / area for a period after leaving ?

Is there a probationary period at all ? or a date at which the training costs kick in ( ie. you don't want to be tied to repaying £4k if you do the job for a week or two, hate it and leave...... you want the 3 years tie in to start from commencement of employment but not to actually become repayable until after your training has concluded.

Do you know anyone else that works at the same company you could ask whether it is a standard clause in their contracts ? From what you said at the interview it doesn't seem you have negotiated yourself into it, sounds like standard question and standard pleasing but vague answer …. not a case of you basically offering them your soul if they give you the job lol.

All contracts are negotiable, but be aware that more it is negotiated the more enforceable it would be at the end. You have to weigh up whether going back with queries or to negotiate amendments to the terms will impress or scare them from employing you thinking you are intending on leaving sooner than 3 years, or be awkward as an employee.

Tough gig, but tbh it's amazing how many people sign these kind of contracts without reading them and only actually doing so when something goes wrong... so kudos to you for trying to sort it out at the beginning,.

Ula is on holiday at the moment but she is popping in now and then, and I suspect she will have some wiser words for you than I ( no pressure ) xx

[ULA]

Training cost repayments are often written into contracts in the event that companies invest time and money into developing and training new recruits/existing employees. Sliding scale of reducing repayments based on length of service following the training is also very common and normally over a 24-36 month period.

Amethyst has given some very good questions that you should go back to get clarification on since it appears that the training seems to be entirely internally focused. Normally these type of training repayments are for external training which is often related to a further qualification, but I have heard of instances where this covers internal training particularly if this is quite intensive. So, try and find out what the training plan consists of and the breakdown of costs for each element, since you want to ensure that you receive all the training that is covered by the repayment.

Also, in the contract is there anything that details how the repayment is to be made? E.g. deduction from final salary and if there is not enough salary to cover the repayment due what happens then. This should be detailed so again there is no ambiguity if and when the situation arises that you leave within the 3 years and have to make a repayment.

[Student7]

Hi Amethyst and ULA, thanks for getting back to me.
There is a 6 month probationary period, after that the notice period is 4 weeks. A garden leave does apply if you leave for the duration of the notice I believe.
I will try to find a breakdown of training plans or cost however it doesn't state how exactly it would be paid back. An earlier separate clause in the contract states that money can be deducted from salary in the event of over payment or money owed so maybe could be that.

It doesn't state when it kicks in or would be payable from and I also didn't know a company could shift "recruitment " costs onto a new employee. Seems very odd and it seems to be lumped together with training costs so I definitely need to get some type of breakdown.

Definitely a tough gig and I don't think it would impress them lol but I need more clarity on the matter before I sign. Tbh I don't fully know what I'm getting into so Im very hesitant to be in a job I realise I hate and wasn't what I expected after 1 month but now owe the company £4000.

[ULA]

I would definitely go back and ask the company "on the basis of clarity and fully understanding the detail of the contract you are being asked to sign" ask the relevant questions that Amethyst and i have suggested you need to get further information for and which could help you in making a decision.

Happy for you to post up the response you get so that we can help with anything.

[Student7]

Thanks I plan to call them tomorrow and will come back with what they say. There was also a clause in there regarding hours of work that seemed strange to me and not sure if it's normal:

""For the purpose of the Working Time Regulations 1998, you agree that the 48 hours working time limit shall not apply to your employment. You may withdraw your agreement to this exclusion by giving the Company three months written notice."

I have heard of people opting out of the 48hours limit but not of it being enforced in a job contract.
Thoughts?

[ULA]

This type of WTR clause is something that i have seen more of in contracts recently, particularly if the job is likely to entail extra hours that may regularly take people over the 48 working week.

[Student7]

Bit late but just as an update, after asking some questions for clarity and more understanding, expressing my feelings on the matter, they were quite understanding and I managed to get the time frame halved. I then managed to negotiate for them to remove the clause altogether.
So a happy resolution, thanks again for the help and advice. Shows you don't ask you don't get.

[ULA]

Thanks for the update and well done on our negotiating skills.