Training costs repaid

[MaccLad91]

Hi Everyone,

I've had some really good help from this site in the past so here goes:


My mum has worked for a care company for just over 3 months she recently handed in her resignation as the company was awful to work for and not operated very well.

She has now officially left the company and has just received her final pay slip.

She has a deduction on there titled "Ded (hrs)" this is for £633.51.

I have sent a request for a breakdown of the deductions and what they are for etc (still awaiting a response)

She was never given a contact or written particulars of employment

From what I can gather it for repaying training when she first started she has signed a document which I have attached called "Undertaking to repay costs concurred during internal training courses" this document is signed by my mum. My question is how water tight is this? It is basically a generic template from google and is very poorly written. it also looks like it was signed by Delta care and not a employee. is this legal? and also in parts says He.

Thanks in advance!

[ULA]

Can you confirm that the signature under the "blocked out area" designated as Employee/Applicant is that of your Mum's?

If, when you get the breakdown of the deductions and they all relate to training that your Mum attended during her time at the care company then unfortunately she has signed a document in regard to repayment of training costs and the specific clause that relates to her circumstances are 1 (iv) and clause 2 allows for the cost to be deducted from salary.

If the deductions do not relate to training then without a contract containing any clause related to deductions or an agreement that covers the repayment of the specific costs then there may be an issue related to illegal deduction of salary.

[MaccLad91]

Thanks for the reply!

yes it is my mums signature underneath. hopefully when we receive the breakdown it will become clearer. are they ok to sign it as the company then?

I am also going to request evidence of what training my mum has attended. Can they only deduct money from the courses she has attended?



Thank you!

[ULA]

Yes they can sign on behalf of the company.

According to the document they can claim for any courses your Mum attended but did not complete for the reasons stated at 1 (I) and 1 (ii) or she was booked on but did not attend 1 (vi).

[MaccLad91]

Hi, I have just received a response from the company with a breakdown of costs please see it below:

This is a breakdown of the information that you have requested:



The deductions on Month 3 payslip (£633.51) are made up of the following:

• No notice given. 5 days worked per week. Deduct 1 weeks’ notice (as per ACAS guidelines) – in this instance last 5 days worked – 27.25 hours @ £8.67 = £236.25
• Recover shadowing and training paid in Month 12 (£172.26) = £172.26
• Recover the cost to Delta Care of 4 days Care Certificate Training (£300) – reduced by 3 12^th’s because Elizabeth has worked for us 3 complete months after the end of her training (£75.00) = £225.00

Sum Total = £633.51

[MaccLad91]

Point 1 says no notice given but my mum had not

received

a contract. surely this should be contractual and in having no contract she can qui when she likes?

Point 2 says recover shadowing (my mum never shadowed anybody) and training paid in month 12. She was paid £172.26 for the 4 days she attended training this was paid on an hourly basis and formed her wage. the training agreement only states that the money for courses can be deducted? am I right?

would appreciate if anybody could help me make sense of this

Thanks

[MaccLad91]

Amethyst you've been amazing in the past have you any idea?

[ULA]

In the absence of a contract then your mother should have given statutory notice which given the length of services is a minimum of one week's notice. If she had been given a contract and this stated a longer time, then she would have had to give this as her notice period.

The only way that the employer can deduct money from her final salary is if they included, in the contract of employment, a specific clause regarding this circumstance. Since your mother has never been provided a contract and unless she has otherwise been notified of this fact then to deduct a week’s pay to cover the fact she did not give notice is in my opinion an unlawful deduction of wages.

In the Undertaking 1 vii) is the only reference to hourly rates but it seems to be just a statement that staff will be paid at the training hourly rate for mandatory training. There is no indication that this will form part of the monies due to be repaid. In the earlier clauses 1 i) to 1 vi) about situations that warrant training costs repayment it only indicates the cost of the course.

[Amethyst]

Amethyst you've been amazing in the past have you any idea?

Awww thanks Ula is far more amazing in this area but do shout if you need anything xxx

[MaccLad91]

Ahh thank you Amethyst! Hope you’re well x

[MaccLad91]

In the absence of a contract then your mother should have given statutory notice which given the length of services is a minimum of one week's notice. If she had been given a contract and this stated a longer time, then she would have had to give this as her notice period.

The only way that the employer can deduct money from her final salary is if they included, in the contract of employment, a specific clause regarding this circumstance. Since your mother has never been provided a contract and unless she has otherwise been notified of this fact then to deduct a week’s pay to cover the fact she did not give notice is in my opinion an unlawful deduction of wages.


In the Undertaking 1 vii) is the only reference to hourly rates but it seems to be just a statement that staff will be paid at the training hourly rate for mandatory training. There is no indication that this will form part of the monies due to be repaid. In the earlier clauses 1 i) to 1 vi) about situations that warrant training costs repayment it only indicates the cost of the course.

Thank you Ula, this is as I though. I have spoken to ACAS who have recommended me to send a letter explaining the illegal deductions and giving them 7 days to send the payment. I’m going to type something up on Monday and send it over to them. Do you have any templates I could use or could I upload my letter and you can have a quick review

thank you so much

[MaccLad91]

Ula I have also received this training attendance form. As All other names have been redacted. This does not state what courses have been completed just that she has attended Induction day 1 etc. what do you think?

[ULA]

This appears to say that your mother attended an induction course between 9.30am and 3.30pm with breaks on 27 Feb. I presume also that is your mother's signature.

Happy for you to post up a draft letter which I can review.

[Amethyst]

25th to 28th inclusive - 4 days - "full induction"
Each sheet is a different date.

So

• Recover the cost to Delta Care of 4 days Care Certificate Training (£300) – reduced by 3 12^th’s because Elizabeth has worked for us 3 complete months after the end of her training (£75.00) = £225.00

would be right to recover as per the agreement ?

[MaccLad91]

25th to 28th inclusive - 4 days - "full induction"
Each sheet is a different date.

So

• Recover the cost to Delta Care of 4 days Care Certificate Training (£300) – reduced by 3 12^th’s because Elizabeth has worked for us 3 complete months after the end of her training (£75.00) = £225.00

would be right to recover as per the agreement ?

I thought it was I was just double checking. thanks for looking