Forth coming employment tribunal

[Fordfocus]

I would be grateful for some help with regards to working out if my ex employer is intentionally trying to confuse me or just blatantly lying to me with regards to their version of how overtime is calculated for back shift and night shift.Basically I was working a 3 shift pattern of days,backs and nights.I was given 3 different rates for the 3 shifts.I am now in the process of going to an employment tribunal and I am trying to prepare my own case as I have been to see a solicitor about certain things relating to this and he basically scared me off with how much it will cost me to fight it against what the claim is potentially worth.

The overtime for late shift refers to the day shift basic rate times by 1.5 and add the shift premium of 75p and the night shift rate is the day shift rate times by 1.5 and add the shift premium of £1.50.

The calculation above is what I received in an email from my ex employer.The back shift premium of £0.75 if taken over 5 shifts is worth £3.75 and the £1.50 night shift premium over 5 shifts is £7.50.
I am in the belief that the figures entered should be per hour and not per shift although they have not stated that and there is no clear definition in the contract as to how the "shift premium" is paid.
I am busy preparing my calculations that I have to send to my ex employer and I have two calculations that I can use.I also have to use the same calculations for the tribunal.I can calculate as above or I an calculate the figures given on a per hour basis as I believe thats what it is meant to be and they are trying to pull the wool over my eyes.Thanks for any help

[Amethyst]

Might help to post the actual email as sent by your employer - also is there anything in your contract regarding pay rates ? Do you know what others get ?

What you have posted seems to say Night Shift is your Day Shift rate ( say £10 an hour ) times 1.5 = so £15 per hour plus a 'shift premium of £1.50' - so if you worked 8 hours as a shift, then Day Shift you'd earn £80 - and Night Shift you'd earn £121.50 ? (£15 per hour plus £1.50 premium )

You're arguing it should be £16.50 per hour for late shift ? (time and a half plus premium per hour) so £132 for the 8 hour Night shift ?

Normally I believe it would be your pay rate x 1.5 per hour plus the additional premium per shift ( not per hour ).

My other half used to get a weekly shift premium when he did nights - so he got time and a half hourly rate then something like £40 a week 'shift premium',

Is your ET simply down to this pay confusion issue?

[Fordfocus]

Starting Rate: -



Day rate £9.75

OT1 Day rate £14.62

OT2 Day Rate £19.50



Back Shift £10.37

OT1 £15.37



Night Shift £11.25

OT1 Rate £16.12

OT2 Rate £21.00



1^st Pay Rise (Your Current Rate)



Day Rate £10.00

OT1 Rate £15.00

OT2 Rate £20.00



Back Shift £10.75

OT1 Rate £15.75



Night Shift £11.50

OT1 £16.50

OT2 £21.50



2^nd Pay Rise (Due 09.09.18)



Day Rate £10.25

OT1 £15.37

OT2 £20.50



Back Shift £11.00

OT1 £16.12



Night Shift £11.75

OT1 £16.87

OT2 £22.00





3^rd Pay Rise (Due 08.08.18)



Day Rate £10.50

OT1 15.75

OT2 £21.00



Back Shift £11.25

OT1 £16.50



Night Shift £12.00

OT1 £17.25

OT2 £22.50



Please remember that the overtime rate is paid once you have completed 39 hours. If you have a day off sick, then the highest overtime will be used to compensate the missed hours. For example, if you take Wednesday off and work Saturday and Sunday then the Sunday hours will be used to compensate for the Wednesday.

Thanks for your response.I cant upload the email so I had to copy and paste it.I wouldnt say I am arguing with regards to the shift premium being paid hourly.I was simply pointing out what the shift premium was worth to me.And when it was costing me nearly £40.00 to travel to work the shift premium wouldnt get the car out of my street.The ET is all about overtime and also bank holidays.Only the first two pay rates were applicable to me as I have obviously since left.I have good reason to think that I am being conned as I have proof of other dodgy dealings with these people that are affecting me directly and I have various organisations involved which I obviously cannot disclose at this time

[Amethyst]

Presumably it costs you the same to get to work by car regardless of the hours worked ( poss cheaper on Night Shifts as less traffic ) It is quite irrelevant though.

The overtime for late shift refers to the day shift basic rate times by 1.5 and add the shift premium of 75p and the night shift rate is the day shift rate times by 1.5 and add the shift premium of £1.50.

So (using the latest figures) your hourly rate is set for Day, Late and Night at £10.50, £11.25 and £12 per hour. Then overtime on Day, Late & Night is all calculated off the Day Shift rate ( so £10.50 )

Day rate overtime is time and a half ( so £15.75 )
Night rate overtime is time and a half of DAY RATE plus £1.50 per hour ( so £17.25 )
As opposed to overtime being paid at time and a half of the Night hourly rate - which would be £18 per hour.
But that's only on overtime on hours over 39 hours, rest is paid at your standard 10.50,11.25 & 12 per hour.

Strange way of doing it, you'd expect overtime to just be time and a half on the hourly rate for the shift you were on, but if that is what is in your contract.... ( do you actually have this in your contract at all ? )


Sorry, I've forgotten your question - are you just trying to work out your timesheets and what you believe you should have been paid vs what you were paid to work out any underpayment you might have experienced or any compensatory award ?

[Fordfocus]

There is nothing in my contract with regards to hourly rate,overtime payments,shift premium,how overtime is calculated etc etc.The rates that I sent you earlier were sent to me in a separate email.The initial temp contract that I signed did not have any rates of pay on it.I took the job in question on on the following basis after a telephone conversation.....time and a half after 8 hrs Mon to Sat and Double time on a Sunday plus shift allowance.I signed a "Fixed term contract" with the same agency in May which assigned me to the same company that I had been with since I signed up with the agency on Nov 2017.I have since found out that the fixed term contract is technically all what it seems as it has no start or end date on it.I paid £120 to a solicitor for a meeting that took less than 5 minutes to be told that.So I am assuming that technically both "contracts" that I have signed are actually worth nothing with regards to the issues in question

[Amethyst]

What grounds is your ET case on ?

[Fordfocus]

The grounds that my ET are based on are....unpaid/incorrect calculation of overtime,possible breach of contract with regards to not informing me of hourly rate,overtime calculations,bank holiday entitlement and if bank holidays are to be taken as annual holidays with regards to being paid for them, I had to wait 8 months to get my initial contract which by that time I had signed the other contract.

[Hotglove]

Have you checked whether you have legal expenses cover on a household insurance policy? I have such cover and they provide an excellent 24/7 helpline staffed by solicitors.
I have been able to resolve issues simply by pointing out to the other party that I have such cover, if the amount in question is modest, they might be more inclined to reach an agreement.