Should I worry ?

[salvanxx]

for a friend ....The supermarket i work for have accused me of clocking out a fellow colleague so he can finish 15mins earlier than his normal finishing time ... i finish my shift after his shift comes to an end ! They produced cctv of me leaving the premises as normal and nothing else to indicate that i had been clocking him out earlier ! They did however produce about half a dozen time sheets from the clock in machine that shows myself clocking out as normal at the normal time , but it also shows that the colleague that i am accused of clocking out , clocking out at the same time , or a minute later , and they asked me if i can recall this colleague being at the clock in machine at the same time as myself .... i said i could not recall ! I think they have cctv of my work colleague leaving the building earlier on certain days that he should not , but as they have no cctv where the clock in machine is , they cant actually say 100% that it is me clocking him out ! ... Although it does look suspicious ! It has now moved from an investigation meeting to a disciplinary hearing , and i personally feel they have little proof on myself to say 100% that i have been clocking him out no matter how suspicious it looks ! Am i right to think this way ?

[ULA]

Have you been formally invited to a disciplinary hearing. If so what information has the company included as part of the evidence they are going to rely on in the meeting.

If your colleague finishes his shift earlier than you I am confused how the company think he is leaving early because technically you work until a later time so he would be working beyond his shift time. Do you know if he is being accused of claiming overtime?

[salvanxx]

Yes i have been formally invited to a disciplinary hearing with two section managers , the evidence as i believe it is , half a dozen prints offs time sheets that show when i have clocked out at the correct times 4pm but also included on the print offs is the employee they think im clocking out and the times he shows as clocking out are either the same time as me or a minute after , 4.20pm or 4.21pm , even tho he is meant to finish at 4pm , that's why they have asked me can you remember him clocking out with you on these days or being at the clock in machine , i have said i cannot remember to these time , that go back about 5 weeks or so .

They have cctv of two times he has left the store , before his finish times , and not came back in ! ... So he has admitted to doing so , due to personal issues at home etc , that's his story ! ....... But it shows on the time sheets that he has still managed to somehow clock out 20 or so mins after his normal finish times.

They have shown me cctv of myself leaving the building at the correct time , but as the person im accused of clocking out has also clocked out at the same time of me on that day , he does not leave the building , as he has already left ... earlier ! ..... So yes they are right that someone has been clocking him out , but i dont understand why they think that is me , they know we are friends , but it seems they are trying to snare me by the time sheets alone ! they show how close we are clocking out together on some days , but surely its not my job to recall everyone that hovers about a clock in machine etc ?!!

If they can time my leaving of the building to my friend clocking out (but not leaving the building) over multiple occasions... then this might qualify as evidence, possibly ?! But why should i have to give explanations to his movements , when no other staff member has to ?!

I am not the only member of staff that finishes at those times of the day , and i think anyone could be clocking him out tbh not just staff that finish at 4pm , i just kinda feel it is being classed as guilt by association because we are friends !


There is no cctv at the clock in / out machine area !

[salvanxx]

My understanding is only the store manager who can oversee sackings and that the section / department managers of the store do not have the authority to ? .... Tho i did notices something in the 'our tesco' , that from march there will be no more hearing hierarchy , so not sure if that means an authorised member of senior team can do dismissals now ?

Can anyone maybe clear this up for me thanks !

[Amethyst]

That'll be a company policy issue rather than an employment law issue. What's happened ?

[salvanxx]

Oh just have a friend who has been accused of gross misconduct , as in clocking someone else out half a dozen times , no cctv or witnesses of her doing this and she has a disciplinary next week with two section managers , she's hoping it will just result in final written and not being dismissed !

[Amethyst]

Ahhh, is she certain there's no CCTV of the clocking machine area? There could also be records of her friend leaving the building earlier than her time card says she left. Who does the meeting/warning etc is down to Tesco's own HR policies though. Has she had previous warnings ?

Does she have someone to attend the meeting with her ?

Ula

[Amethyst]

Threads merged xx

[salvanxx]

Absolutely no cctv of the clock in machine area .... what she tells me they have as what they class as evidence is , time sheets that show her clocking out at the correct time she is meant to , but also her friend clocking out even tho he is meant to finish 20mins earlier than her , so the time sheets show his clocking out times either match her times of clocking out or are a minute just afterwards ! ..... plus on two occasions they have cctv of her friend leaving the building early but he has been clocked out 20mins later ! ..... They are asking her to explain why she would not see her friend at the clock in machine half a dozen times and why is his clock out times either matching her clock out times or just a minute afterwards ? ... she is saying she simply cant recall if he was there or not ! .....They know someone is clocking him out but it seems cos they are friends and the time sheets match that it simply has to be her ! ... guilt by association it seems ! .. the thing is she is not the only one who clocks out at that time and it could really be anyone in the store tbh .

[ULA]

The ACAS guidelines advise that "... a decision to dismiss should only be taken by a manager that has the authority to do so."

I think the supermarket concerned will have a well defined disciplinary process and the seniority of staff at the meeting with the authority to make such a decision, if they have advised in the letter regarding the disciplinary meeting that could be a possible outcome.

On the days in question do you remember anyone else being at the clocking machine who may be able to remember that the person concerned was also there clocking out - maybe you could ask them to do a witness statement? If that is not possible then my view is that when attending the meeting honesty is the best policy, in regard to both confirming not clocking out for the individual or for not remembering to see them.

[salvanxx]

Thank you i will take your advice onboard and hope for the best ! thanks again !

[ULA]

If you need any more guidance before or after the disciplinary we are here if you need us. Good luck

[salvanxx]

If you need any more guidance before or after the disciplinary we are here if you need us. Good luck

Can i ask another question , the investigation meetings she had , she feels that as she was not the only staff member to finish at the time she clocks out at on the days in question , that she feels that witness statements from other member of staff that also finished at those times could have been collected to ask if they had perhaps seen the work colleague in question at the clock in machine at those times ! .... In fact no other member of staff at all has been asked if they ever seen her friend at the clock in machine at the times mentioned , and there is near on 200 people who are employed by this company ! .... Could this be seen as a biased investigation or not done properly etc ?

Maybe they feel they have enough evidence to go on , but surely that would be denying my friend of fair investigatory pre hearings by first ruling out every possibility ?!

[ULA]

I would suggest that this question is raised as part of the defence given at the meeting.