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Letter of Claim received from bwlegal Please advise thankyou!

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  • Letter of Claim received from bwlegal Please advise thankyou!

    Hello there,

    I am a new member, just joined, Today I received a Letter of Claim before action from bwlegal. This is on behalf of Brittania Parking. Appealed with Brittania and then with POPLA. Photographic evidence uploaded embedded within PDF claim yet POPLA say they did not receive any photographs so cannot take it into consideration. Appeal was rejected.

    Driver parked in a small parking bay where she has been parking regularly for 30 years. She had no idea Brittania was operating there and believed car parking area to be free. Car parking area serves 9 businesses and driver was frequenting Indian restaurant where she stayed for one hour. This was 10.00pm at night in October. Very dark, no signs seen by driver. It seems Brittania operate a 20 minute restriction. Signs are fairly obvious during the day but are positioned in areas where they simply cannot be seen at night. Brittania provided photographs to POPLA of their signage at 10.00pm at night in June with clear blue sky and lots of light. I provided photographs to POPLA taken 2 weeks after incident 10.00pm at night in October with dark black sky and no lighting in car park. Signage is on one side of parking area only and cannot be seen when parked facing Indian restaurant so signage not seen by driver. I explained all this to POPLA but as I said they said as no photographic evidence was provided they cannot take it into consideration. I have no idea how they missed all the photographs provided. Now I have received letter of claim saying if response or payment is not received by May 18th then claim against me will be made in county court. They are persuing me as registered keeper. I have read some advice to ignore this until you actually receive a court claim. Indian restaurant manager told me to ignore all letters as this has happened to many of his customers and he is currently taking Brittania to court for loss of business and believes them to be there illegally. I questioned landowner authority in my POPLA appeal and Brittania provided a redacted contract. I have approached several businesses at this parade and no one knows who the landowner is. I decided not to take restaurant manager's advice to ignore and went ahead with the appeal. My question is do I respond to bwlegal saying I dispute this charge? Do I have a case here? Signage was genuinely not seen in this car park area. Signage is badly positioned, too high and the wording is too small to read. All this was stated in POPLA appeal. Please advise on my next step? With many thanks.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    THat's why for a POPLA appeal it is usually suggested that any photographs are added in line with the text rather than as attachments which can be "lost", as you have found out.

    So let's see the PCN you received and photos of the signs (readable ones) and in the dark. Redact identifying details but leave dates. That redacted contract could be good. Did the contract say they could commence legal proceedings or is it silent on that? It could have said that they are not allowed to start proceedings but it was redacted.

    Yes you dispute with BWL, there was no contract created as the signs could not be seen at that time of night.

    Comment


    • #3
      In appeal I wrote 'photo 1' or 'photo 2' in line with the text and then embedded the photos in the PDF file along with the text. It was all one document so I don't see how they could of been lost but certainly they may not have been looked at by whoever was reading the appeal. I will post the PCN and photos, do I just upload them here in this thread? Thanks for your reply!

      Comment


      • #4
        Here is the redacted contract that Brittania provided to POPLA when I questioned landowner authority in the appeal.
        Attached Files

        Comment


        • #5

          Comment


          • #6
            The signs are too high for the terms and conditions to be read. The driver drove into the car parking area and because the entrance sign faces outwards directly onto the opposite side of the road, when turning right into the car park all that can be seen is a silver pole. You cannot see the sign in the dark. Then as you can see signage is only on one side of the parking area. Driver parked facing the other direction where there are no signs. Too dark to see signs behind you in rear view mirror.

            Comment


            • #7
              So where in the agreement does it give Brittania the right to commence court proceedings? I believe that this requirement is within the BPA CoP. (I could be wrong) 6.1 (f)

              In that notice to keeper where is the invitation required by 9 (2) (e)

              Where is the period of parking required by 9 (2) (a)? Moving in front of a camera is not, by definition, parking

              Where is date of sending 9 (2) (i)

              Comment


              • #8
                Would this qualify for allowing Brittania to start court proceedings? in section BPA/AOS
                'and hereby authorises the supplier and its parent company at their discretion to take legal action to recover parking charges where they remain unpaid'

                As for the NTK have Brittania not adhered to legal protocol? What can I do?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sorry ,I missed that legal bit

                  However the POFA failures mean that the cannot hold the keeper liable.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In one of the photos, a very bright light behind the sign makes it very difficult to see (A bit like trying to stare at the sun!)
                    CAVEAT LECTOR

                    This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                    You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                    Cohen, Herb


                    There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                    gets his brain a-going.
                    Phelps, C. C.


                    "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                    The last words of John Sedgwick

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Btw, that supplier/customer contract is cr@p as it is.
                      Who is the customer?
                      I'll bet it isn't the landowner....it's usually a managing agent.
                      CAVEAT LECTOR

                      This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                      You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                      Cohen, Herb


                      There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                      gets his brain a-going.
                      Phelps, C. C.


                      "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                      The last words of John Sedgwick

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Who is the customer? - after much digging I discovered that one of the businesses (Launderette) supplies the electricity to the cameras. But they say they are not the landowners and they do not know who is. If you are using the Launderette you can give your number plate to the manager and you can stay longer than the 20 minutes. However no one can use any other premises there for longer than the 20 minutes. Indian restaurant manager says all 9 businesses have an interest in the car park but for some reason no one can do anything about Brittania being there and the Indian restaurant manager is taking Brittania and the Launderette to court.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks for your replies - my question now is what is my next step? I dispute the debt and fill out section 4 on bwlegal's form stating that driver did not see the signs. I can send in my appeal statement and photos. Do I also say that due to the POFA failures you mention that they must cease to persue me as I am the registered keeper? Thanks!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            In one of the photos, a very bright light behind the sign makes it very difficult to see (A bit like trying to stare at the sun!) - In the photo of the sign layout you can see that signs are all over on one side. Driver parked facing the opposite side where there is not one single sign. 10.00pm at night so dark you cannot see the signs behind you in rear view mirror. After 30 years of freely frequenting this car park driver had no reason to assume there were any parking restrictions. Entrance sign cannot be seen either as it faces outwards and if you turn right into the car park, it is not in front of you, so 10.00pm at night in the dark it simply was not seen. Driver would never have deliberately stayed in a car park where there were any restrictions.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by MayaForrest View Post
                              In one of the photos, a very bright light behind the sign makes it very difficult to see (A bit like trying to stare at the sun!) - In the photo of the sign layout you can see that signs are all over on one side. Driver parked facing the opposite side where there is not one single sign. 10.00pm at night so dark you cannot see the signs behind you in rear view mirror. After 30 years of freely frequenting this car park driver had no reason to assume there were any parking restrictions. Entrance sign cannot be seen either as it faces outwards and if you turn right into the car park, it is not in front of you, so 10.00pm at night in the dark it simply was not seen. Driver would never have deliberately stayed in a car park where there were any restrictions.
                              BPA Code of Practice
                              18.10 Where there is a change in the terms and conditions that materially affects the motorist then you must make these terms and conditions clear on your signage. Where such changes impose liability where none previously existed then you must consider a transition to allow regular visitors to the site to adjust and familiarise themselves with the changes. Best practice would be the installation of additional/temporary signage at the entrance and throughout the site making it clear that new terms and conditions apply. This will ensure such that regular visitors who may be familiar with the previous terms become aware of the new ones.
                              CoP downloadable from
                              https://www.britishparking.co.uk/Cod...nce-Monitoring
                              CAVEAT LECTOR

                              This is only my opinion - "Opinions are made to be changed --or how is truth to be got at?" (Byron)

                              You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are.
                              Cohen, Herb


                              There is danger when a man throws his tongue into high gear before he
                              gets his brain a-going.
                              Phelps, C. C.


                              "They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance!"
                              The last words of John Sedgwick

                              Comment

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