**DISCONTINUED** County Court Business Centre Letter Received

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

I agree with [MENTION=39331]ostell[/MENTION].

& more importantly, they've deceived the court.
Naughty boys!

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

They shouldn't have filed the certificate of service before actually sending the docs, especially when the document itself is 5 days after the cert of service!

It's not muddying the water, it shows how underhand and sneaky they are.

Ok fantastic...I will leave it in then

& more importantly, they've deceived the court.
Naughty boys!

Best ensure this is brought to light as well haha!!

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

@charitynjw @ostell @innocentrabbit @Pipsy

****Update from the flight deck****

I just spoke to the court....and it transpires the agent i spoke to on Monday was still on holiday in Ibiza, and gave me COMPLETELY incorrect information...Thanks Jack!

The N215 has NOT been filed by CEL in my case (no surprise there..) but in my email to them i said that it was because that's what i was told by the court!!!!!!!! VERY frustrating!

Anyway....I went off on one with my newly discovered legal knowledge (thank you charitynjw & ostell...) at which point the agent quickly transferred me to his manager.

I immediately asked if she was legally trained, but no....no one there is legally trained as it is just an online system and NO ONE assesses the case files. The defence statement is sent to the claimant and they decide if they want to proceed, and if they do it can go to a local court (i believe local to me?).

I took her through the timeline that i have experienced and she asked me to stop and ended up actually finishing the story for me!! It turns out that CEL are in their bad books for not following practices and are on the receiving end of a bollo*king from them. She has requested that i email her over my additional evidence which will a) be kept on file ready for the next stage it there even is one, and b) she wants to forward it on to their "Customer Insight Team" who are currently dealing with the CEL situation.

She game be an email address to use to send it.

There are 2 options....I can either send a bulk load of these, or we can all send out own individual statements for her attention and she will forward them on....I'm easy with either!

Sounds like these naughty boys could be coming to a very sticky patch in the road...

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Yes, it will be transferred your local court if it goes the distance.

I go checking out the reports
Digging up the dirt
You get to meet all sorts
In this line of work

Treachery and treason
There's always an excuse for it
And when I find the reason

I still can't get used to it

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Yes, it will be transferred your local court if it goes the distance.

I wonder if they will be heading down from Liverpool to the Home Counties for this...hummmm

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

[MENTION=61850]OliverJames[/MENTION]

http://www.civillitigationbrief.com/...lways-serious/

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Afternoon folks!

I am sending my letter of complaint to the CCBC Helpdesk for the attention of Amanda Beck on bulkcentre.helpdesk@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk(as per post #93) and wanted to share the draft, in case it is able to help anyone else in a similar position!!

PLEASE ACCEPT THIS LETTER ONLY AS A LETTER OF COMPLAINT. IT DOES NOT FORM PART OF MY DEFENCE AND SHOULD NOT BE TREATED AS SUCH.

Dear Amanda,

Regarding Claim Form XXXXXXXX, I am writing to the court following our phone conversation on Friday to complain that Civil Enforcement Limited (CEL), the Claimant in the above case, has deliberately backdated the Particulars Of Claim which were served separate to the claim form pursuant to CPR Rule 7.4 (1)(b).

The Claim form was issued on 2nd October, stating that the detailed Particulars of Claim would be provided to me within 14 days after service of the claim form. The Claim Form was therefore served on 7 October (5 days later, as set out in paragraph 5.7 of Practice Direction 7E which relates solely to MCOL claims). This means that the Particulars of Claim should have been served on or by 23 October (since 21/22 were a Saturday/Sunday). This would mean that they should have been posted by Friday 20 October. The time limits for service are clearly set out in Rules 6.3(b) and 6.20(b), and the requirement to serve separate Particulars within 14 days is contained in Rule 7.4(1)(b).

The further Particulars of Claim and covering letter were delivered by Royal Mail on Tuesday 24 October, and so I assume (as I did not keep the envelope that they were posted in) that they were posted on 23 October. However they were dated, and accompanied by a letter dated, 11 October 2017. There is a witness statement to corroborate these dates on which the further Particulars arrived.

The Claimant has made a poor attempt to conceal the actual date on which it served the further Particulars by backdating them by 12 days, together with the covering letter. I would direct you to the fact that the claimant has also failed to include a signed N215 Certificate of Service which would be supported by a Statement of Truth, in a clear attempt to avoid the consequences, via CPR 32.14, of filing false evidence.

I cannot fathom any reason for the Claimant having backdated its further Particulars of Claim, other than to try to gain an advantage by making it appear that I have filed my defence late, or by confusing me into having to rush to file my defence prematurely. This is a serious matter and I ask that this is formally noted on the claimants file.

My understanding of the rules is that the Claimant may not file the Particulars late, and the sanctions in Rule 3.8 apply unless it applies for relief under Rule 3.9 (which it has not done). Consequently, the court should not allow the further Particulars of Claim unless and until the Claimant makes that application, or the court gives directions. Whilst the Particulars were received only one day out of time, under Rule 3.8 it is not in my gift to consent to accepting late service.

Setting aside the issue over Rule 3.8/9, I calculate that my Defence was due to be filed on 7^th November (14 days from service of the Particulars on 24^th October, as per Rule 15.4(1)(a)), and I have filed it.

This is a commercial Claimant pursuing many other claims of this nature. It must therefore have knowledge of, and understand, the Civil Procedure Rules and these sorts of blatant breaches should not be allowed because they prejudice Litigants in Person who are not versed in court procedures and the court rules. It is with some difficulty that I have understood the various obligations and time limits set out in the Civil Procedure Rules, as a Litigant in Person, whereas the commercial Claimant has no such excuse.


I am writing to you because I understand that the issue with CEL backdating their Particulars of Claim, and failing to file the Certificate of Service, has become extremely common. It appears that they have issued batch claims on or around 10 October with which they cannot cope. Their template Particulars of Claim, identical in each case, are an abuse of process, and all of them appear to be dated 11 October when they are in fact being posted much later (and in many cases out of time). I wonder what the court is going to do about CEL's abuse of the system? All court users, both professional and lay, are expected to abide by the Civil Procedure Rules: this is why they exist, to put all parties on an equal footing. CEL are ignoring the rules which is prejudicing what appears to be a large number of lay defendants

Yours Faithfully

The email address that Amanda gave me will send back the following bounceback;

This email account is no longer in use and is unmonitored. Your message has not been forwarded.

But folk shouldn't be alarmed by this!

Having requested confirmation of receipt from Amanda, she responded within 20 mins to confirm she had received and forwarded the message and its contents on!

Get everyone to CC themselves and request confirmation of receipt and go from there.

[Pipsy]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

PLEASE ACCEPT THIS LETTER ONLY AS A LETTER OF COMPLAINT. IT DOES NOT FORM PART OF MY DEFENCE AND SHOULD NOT BE TREATED AS SUCH

Dear Amanda,
Could I please have a confirmation copy of Receipt please for my records
Regarding Claim Form xxxxx, I am writing to the court to complain that Civil Enforcement Limited (CEL), the Claimant in the above case, has deliberately backdated the Particulars Of Claim which were served separate to the claim form pursuant to CPR Rule 7.4 (1)(b).
The Claim form was issued on 10th October 2017, stating that the detailed Particulars of Claim would be provided to me within 14 days after service of the claim form. The Claim Form was served 11th October 2017(7 days later, as set out in paragraph 5.7 of Practice Direction 7E which relates solely to MCOL claims). This means that the Particulars of Claim should have been served on or by 24^thOctober 2017. This would mean that they should have been posted by Friday 20 October. The time limits for service are clearly set out in Rules 6.3(b) and 6.20(b), and the requirement to serve separate Particulars within 14 days is contained in Rule 7.4(1)(b).

particulars of Claim would be provided to me within 14 days after service of the claim form. The Claim Form was served 11th October 2017(7 days later, as set out in paragraph 5.7 of Practice Direction 7E which relates solely to MCOL claims). This means that the Particulars of Claim should have been served on or by 24^thOctober 2017. This would mean that they should have been posted by Friday 20 October. The time limits for service are clearly set out in Rules 6.3(b) and 6.20(b), and the requirement to serve separate Particulars within 14 days is contained in Rule 7.4(1)(b).
The further Particulars of Claim and covering letter were delivered by Royal Mail on Tuesday 31^st October, as the post mark shows , but in the envelope was a letter dated, 11th October 2017. There is a witness statement to corroborate these dates on which the further Particulars arrived.
The Claimant has made a poor attempt to conceal the actual date on which it served the further Particulars by backdating them by days, together with the covering letter. I would direct you to the fact that the claimant has also failed to include a signed N215 Certificate of Service which would be supported by a Statement of Truth, in a clear attempt to avoid the consequences, via CPR 32.14, of filing false evidence.
I cannot fathom any reason for the Claimant having backdated its further Particulars of Claim, other than to try to gain an advantage by making it appear that I have filed my defence late, or by confusing me into having to rush to file my defence prematurely. This is a serious matter and I ask that this is formally noted on the claimants file.
My understanding of the rules is that the Claimant may not file the Particulars late, and the sanctions in Rule 3.8 apply unless it applies for relief under Rule 3.9 (which it has not done). Consequently, the court should not allow the further Particulars of Claim unless and until the Claimant makes that application, or the court gives directions. Whilst the Particulars were received only one day out of time, under Rule 3.8 it is not in my gift to consent to accepting late service.
Setting aside the issue over Rule 3.8/9, I calculate that my Defence was due to be filed on 8th November (14 days from service of the Particulars on 24th October, as per Rule 15.4(1)(a)), and I have filed it.
This is a commercial Claimant pursuing many other claims of this nature. It must therefore have knowledge of, and understand, the Civil Procedure Rules and these sorts of blatant breaches should not be allowed because they prejudice Litigants in Person who are not versed in court procedures and the court rules. It is with some difficulty that I have understood the various obligations and time limits set out in the Civil Procedure Rules, as a Litigant in Person, whereas the commercial Claimant has no such excuse.
I am writing to you because I understand that the issue with CEL backdating their Particulars of Claim, and failing to file the Certificate of Service, has become extremely common. It appears that they have issued batch claims on or around 11th October with which they cannot cope. Their template Particulars of Claim, identical in each case, are an abuse of process, and all of them appear to be dated 11 October when they are in fact being posted much later (and in many cases out of time). I wonder what the court is going to do about CEL's abuse of the system? All court users, both professional and lay, are expected to abide by the Civil Procedure this is why they exist, to put all parties on an equal footing. CEL are ignoring the rules which is prejudicing what appears to be a large number of lay defendants
Yours Faithfully

Hi everyone can you please check to see if ive got all my dates right ,,, mental block Thanks Pipsy

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

@charitynjw just a quick one, how long does the defendant have to come back after my defence has been submitted?

I sent it on the 6th November (10 days ago). I think it's 28 days, but I am getting confused by different things im reading!

Sorry to be a nightmare haha!!

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

I have received my directions questionnaire and completed it following the BMPA guide - http://www.bmpa.eu/court_wizard/Dire...tionnaire.html

My plan is to email a copy to the CCBC, and include a cover letter for CEL which outlines the following;

Dear Civil Enforcement Ltd


RE - Claim Number XXXXXXXX

I wrote to you via email on the 8^th November to draw your attention to the fact that you had deliberately backdated the Particulars Of Claim which were served separate to the Claim Form pursuant to CPR Rule 7.4(1)(b).

I have not received a reply from you explaining why you deliberately, backdated the Particulars of Claim, nor have I received the certificate of service that I requested you to send.

I have contacted the County Court Business Centre, who have confirmed that they have not received a signed N215 Certificate of Service, which would be supported by a Statement of Truth.

This would appear to be a clear attempt to avoid the consequences, via CPR 32.14, of filing false evidence.

Where there is an assertion that documents have been deliberately backdated / or misdated and that a correctly filed and signed N215 would make this evident then I believe this is very important as it constitutes an attempt to hide this breach from the court.

Given CEL's multiple breaches of the CPR, I will be writing to the Court to give consideration, under its inherent case management powers, to strike out the claim

Due to your flagrant disregard of the CPR rules, I invite you to withdraw your claim proceedings in this matter and expect to hear from you within 14 days to confirm this.


Yours Faithfully,

Firstly, is there any critique on the letter before i send it?

Secondly, do you recommend i email a copy to CEL by CC'ing them into the email to the CCBC?

Keen to get this part right as i am likely to rely on this if this goes in front of a DJ

Thank you all!

Oliver

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

So it looks like CEL are pushing this case to the wire! I have been advised that the case has been transferred to my local court! My understanding is that the next stage is for CEL to pay for a hearing....which they may well do...so I think i need to prepare myself a witness statement.
[MENTION=39331]ostell[/MENTION] [MENTION=5553]charitynjw[/MENTION] do you have any suggestions about how to set this out? Is it the same as any other witness statement, just telling the story from my side?

Cheers

Oliver

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Hi

I've been away for a few days, so only just picked this up today.

I'll have a read back through the thread.

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Have you checked re the hearing fee?

[OliverJames]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Have you checked re the hearing fee?

No I haven't. Is it a case of ringing my local court and asking them if a hearing fee has been paid?

[charitynjw]

Re: County Court Business Centre Letter Received

Hi Oliver

Yes, that's right.

Looks like they're learning how to play hardball!