Cabot

[LuggerBugs]

I need to put this somewhere, so I'll use this Forum.

OK, I need to get this in right at the start. This thread is NOT about trying to dodge a debt. It IS a thread about the somewhat shady practices of one particular debt purchasing company, and how they try to twist the various laws, acts etc to suit their particular way of thrying to get YOU to part with YOUR MONEY, by claiming they have a legitimate right to do so, despite no evidence to back it up.

I do have a thread running on another forum, so in following posts I will atempt to precis what has become a bit of a monster.

Watch this space.

[LuggerBugs]

OK, here goes. Basically, Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited contacted me way back whenever (they SAY 11th December 2006, but that's bollix) Apparently they are the so-called collecting agents for Cabot Financial (UK) Limited, who are now the proud owners of my old Barclaycard account. I say apparently, because to date they have failed to provide any evidence that 1) They actually DO own the account, and 2) I ever signed an actual agreement, recognised as such, and regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

So for new folks who might find themselves being chased by this company, I suggest the following. Do NOT believe their assurances that they are your friend, and only want to help. They will lie again and again, to get you to part with money that you in all probability do NOT OWE. OK, perhaps lie is a bit strong. Hmm. No it isn't. They DO lie, or at least, provide you with their own version of the truth, which to my mind is exactly the same thing.

OK, there is FAR too much to get written down here. So my suggestion is, if you want to catch up completely on my dealings with these miserable toe-rags, try reading my thread in CAG at Seahorse v Cabot - Consumer Action Group However, for ease of reading, from now on, I shall parallel my experiences in both forums, so there is no need to belong to both. You can quite happily stick with the other Beaglies here.

OK, next post will be regarding the latest letter I have had from them.

[LuggerBugs]

Right. Here it is. If you've read my thread elsewhere as mentioned above, fine. If not, well this is as good a place to start as any.

Their letter follows, with my comments in red. And don't blame me for the poor grammer etc. It's as it came from the good people at Cabot, so all errors are entirely theirs.

I write in relation to the aforementioned and your email of 6th April 2007. Please accept my apologies for the delay in replying to you.

I regret that you have felt cause to complain to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited ("Cabot") and aplogise for any inconvenience that you may have suffered in relation to this matter. I am disappointed that Cabot has not been able to satisfy your concerns on previous occasions. Not as disappointed as me, matey boy. However, I shall set out our position in full.That will be a first.

You state we have failed to provide evidence to show where you authorised the sharing of your data, as you do not recognise the right of Cabot to process such data. That's because you haven't. And for clarifaication, I actually deny that ANY Company within the Cabot Group of Companies has any right to do so. Just in case you try any trickiness in court with name shifting. We have previously provided you with a copy of the Barclaycard credit agreement that you signed when you applied for the credit card. NO! You Feckin well, HAVEN'T!!! The terms and conditions that you agreed to, Agreed where? Show me, you dimwitted imbecile allowed Barclaycard to process your data. Only your word for that, I'm afraid. Please be aware that following the purchase of your account all such rights were also assigned to the Cabot Financial Group in dealing with your account. I've yet to see evidence of that so far. Please also be advised that when your account was assigned to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited, all personal data relating to your account was passed from the asignor, Barclaycard, to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited in order to process. Therefore no data was passed to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited to Cabot and as previously re-iterated it is only Cabot that processes personal data. Only CABOT processes personal data? Who? Europe? UK? Cabot Beer Fund Limited?

You dispute that the document previously provided for you is actually a copy of the correctly executed agreement, but state that it is merely a copy of an application form. That's because it IS only a copy of an application form. As previously advised it is not our duty to supply a
copy of the credit agreement. Well, give me my £1 back, then. However, you will note from the copy supllied to us by Barclaycard, that your
signature is supported by the statement "This is a Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Just because it says so doesn't make it so. Sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms." What terms? By signing the document you clearly agreed to be bound by the terms of the agreement and Cabot is able to rely on this. Rely on what???? Terms that you can't show ever existed in the first place???
You comment that it is a requirement for the whole document to be legible how very observant of you and have asked where in the document the terms are covered. I am sorry that we have been unable to provide a clearer copy, however as stated previously you did enter into an agreement with Barclaycard to provide credit well, you'll be able to produce the aforementioed agreement in court then, won't you and you benefited from your use of the card. Barclaycard provided the terms and conditions of the agreement for you at the time you entered into the agreement. Really? Prove it. Furthermore, we have included for your reference the updated terms and conditions, Well, THEY are no use, are they? They didn't exist at the time you say I signed an agreement. Tchh from Barclaycard You shall note that your personal data may be passed to a third party to whom Barclaycard assign any of their rights and/or duties to. And your point is? Until you produce and actual agreement, AND the terms it referred to at the time, this has no relevance whatsoever.

You dispute receiving the Notice of Assignment sent on 11th December. Yup. The detailed notes on your account record that a "hello" letter was indeed sent to you on 11th December 2006 as advised on previous occasions. Again, you may say so, but it doesn't mean it happened. These are standard system generated letters and as such, we do not keep copies, just a record of the date it was sent. Oh, dear. I would like to refer you to point 3 of the Additional Information in the notice of assignment where it states that the letter acts as notice of assignment of your account to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited. What, along with the "goodbye" letter, allegedly produced by Barlaycard, and sent by Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited, which looks suspiciously as if they were both produced from the same template system, and from the same printer?

You repeat your claim that Cabot should not be processing your data and refer to section 55 of the Data Protection Act 1998. As explained previously, this section relates specifically to the unlawful buying and selling of data without the consent of the data subject. And you haven't yet grasped the point of thos claim? Given that the terms of the original agreement You haven't feckin well GOT the terms that you refer to, so how can you say what they were???? ARRGGHHHH!!!! NUMBSKULLS!!!! have been assigned to Cabot, this does allow us to process your data and therefore any actions relating to the processing of such are not unlawful. Og, God. This is getting tiresome.

You had previously indicated in your correspondence, dated 16 February 2007, that you would be prepared to enter into an arrangement to settle the outstanding balance on your account. The LEGITIMATE balance on the account, if such exists. We have clearly stated our position to you
on several occasions, but as yet, you have offered no proposals on this. Regrettably if no arrangement to settle your outstanding balance is forthcoming, we shall have no other option but to return your account to our collections process. OK, see you in court then. You obviously have all the evidence you need.

I trust I have clarified our final position with regards to your account.
If you have any other queries in relation to the above account, please do not hesitate to contact me on 01732 775105. The Complaints department is open from 9am to 5pm Monday to Friday.

Yours sincerely
Patrick Hill
Customer Assurance Team Leader

[LuggerBugs]

Of course, I couldn't let sleeping dogs lie. Or should that be, lying dogs sleep? I forget. Anyway, I banged an email off to several of the heirarchy at Cabot just in case they were dozing at their PC's at 9 in the evening. And unbelievably, I got a Read Receipt back from all of them within minutes of sending. What a wonderfully dedicated bunch they all must be down at Kings Hill in Kent.

Here's wot I rote. Unfortunately it will have to be spread over 2 posts due to the size of posts limit in the Forum.

Dear Mr Hill

I write with reference to your letter dated 17 May 2007, whereby you appear to be under the misapprehension that Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited has complied with my request that they fulfil their commitment under Sections 77(1) and 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, despite your contention that you are not obliged to supply the documents requested. I find it curious that you have indeed made an attempt to comply with my request, and have accepted and cashed the statutory fee enclosed with that request. However, as you have merely sent me a copy of my original application form, and have apparently been unable to provide me with any statement of account or any of the ORIGINAL terms to which you consistently refer, I now consider that you are in criminal default of my request by virtue of exceeding the statutory period allowed for the provision of those requested documents. Please note also that, whether or not you consider that the Account was assigned by virtue of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, that is precisely the Act that you allege I am in breach of. I will therefore be relying in the main on that Act in defence of any action that you may contemplate.You will concede then, that you still have not proved the ownership or any rights to any benefit of the above account allegedly due to your client Cabot Financial (UK) Limited, and therefore you will understand that I am under no obligation to acknowledge that any alleged debt be discharged to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited.

The documents which you have provided (your “hello” and “goodbye” letters) do not prove to my satisfaction that any legal assignment has taken place. Indeed, it is my belief that both those documents were written and produced from templates residing within the computer system of one of the companies within the Cabot Group of Companies. As such, it is my belief that by the issuing of these documents, one of which purports to have originated from Barclaycard, Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited appear to be misrepresenting themselves, and are perhaps engaging in activities which at best might be construed as being frowned on by the debt collection guidelines, which I assume your company would strive to adhere to, and at worst might constitute a criminal act. The word which reluctantly springs to mind is FRAUD, and I sincerely hope that I am incorrect in that respect. It is my intention to question Barclaycard to confirm whether or not the “goodbye” letter did indeed originate from them, and if so, I will apologise to you for expressing my suspicions in this email. However, I do find it incredible that a letter which you claim is a copy of a letter provided by Barclaycard is dated AFTER the date you claim the original was sent, back on 11 December 2006. Especially when your latest communication confirms that your letters are merely produced from templates, and no copy is kept of any such letters sent.

Indeed, if Barclaycard did NOT themselves write that “goodbye” letter, I must question whether any legal assignment at all has taken place.In respect of the above therefore, the only way that I will be convinced of the Bona Fides of your assertion that Cabot Financial (UK) Limited have any legal right to the Account above, is if you provide me with the documents originally requested, as well as a Deed of Assignment. You may consider that you have no legal requirement to produce those documents, however without doing so, it is my belief that you are otherwise unable to confirm any legal right to the Account, nor any rights to act with reference to the Account.For the avoidance of doubt, any such document that you might offer as purporting to be a Deed of Assignment should have as a minimum:

• The name of Original Creditor
• The name of the New Owner
• The amount of Original Debt
• The date of sale to the new owner
• The signature of both the Original Creditor and New Owner

If there would appear to be any content that you might consider to be of a commercially sensitive nature, I suggest that it would not be beyond the ability of your office staff to ensure that this information would be blanked out from the copy you supply. Please understand that I will not accept this as an excuse for you not to provide this document.

You will also note that, I am under no obligation to prove to you that the debt you allege actually exists. Therefore I am not contemplating at this stage that I need to make any further contact with the Original Creditor to confirm or deny your claim that Cabot Financial (UK) Limited are entitled to any rights with respect to the above Account. I assume you realise that the burden of proof lies with Cabot Financial (UK) Limited to validate any such claim.

Please realise that this letter is to be in no way construed as an attempt to “dodge” any alleged debt. I believe that my requests are reasonable and fair, and are an attempt to confirm the exact status of the above Account. I also wish to confirm that, if you are able to prove that Cabot Financial (UK) Limited have any legal rights regarding this account, including proof of the exact amount owed by way of proper statements of account, I shall be more than willing to enter in negotiations with the legal owner to repay any debt that they might prove to exist.

Unfortunately, if Cabot Financial (UK) Limited are unable or unwilling to provide me with any reasonable proof as requested, than I shall have no alternative to seek redress for the harassment and distress caused by the continual attempts by Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited to collect on a non existent debt. This will also include action in respect of breaches of the Data Protection Act by both Cabot Financial (UK) Limited and Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited, and may include, but will not be limited to, seeking financial recompense.

[LuggerBugs]

Email to Patrick, Part 2...

I trust that this letter demonstrates that I am more than willing to be reasonable with regard to this matter. However, please be aware that the nature of any future communication will depend largely on your response, which I would hope will be swift. You will also please note that, if you are contemplating taking any legal action in respect of recovering this alleged debt, the documentation you have hitherto supplied will be presented by me in defence as, far from strengthening any claim you might feel that Cabot Financial (UK) Limited has regarding the above Account, all that you have provided me with is greater evidence in defence of any action that you may take.

Finally, you will take note that you are to consider this letter as an official complaint. As such, in addition to the above, I require you to inform me of your client’s official complaints procedure. This will allow me to follow up on this complaint through the correct channels in order to avoid any confusion that might otherwise occur. You should note that, as you allege that Cabot Financial (UK) Limited are the legal owners of the above Account, it is the complaints procedure of that company that I require, as I believe that my communication through Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited is merely on the basis of Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited acting as agents for the former.

As this matter has been ongoing since, you allege, December 2006, it should not be out with the scope of your Company to provide a substantive response within a short space of time. I envisage 14 days as being reasonable, and therefore I would appreciate a reply within that time frame. Further, if this matter has not been resolved to my complete satisfaction within eight weeks from the date of receipt of this email, it is my intention to refer this complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.

Of course, as intimated in your letter, if you feel that you are no longer able to comply with my requests, you do have the option of legal recourse. To assist in this process, I would like to inform you that my local Sherriff Court is in Peterhead, and I look forward to defending any action that you might contemplate as I, quite frankly, find your attempts to justify that Cabot Financial (UK) Limited has any legitimate claim to the amount previously stated to be laughable. I would therefore appreciate that Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited, please advise me at their earliest convenience that this is an action that they are likely to consider in the near future. Failing this, would you please do me the courtesy of writing to confirm that Cabot Financial (UK) Limited are dropping all claim to the amount previously stated, in a final letter to me.

Yours Sincerely,

LuggerBugs

[LuggerBugs]

OK, been having a nosy around Companies House website, and I'm a bit confused where this compny fits in to the general sceme of things.

I'm a bit confused, cos another source says it's a dormant company. And also that it's nature of business is confidential.

I'm also informed of other irregularities that I won't mention here as I've no intention of leaving this forum wide open to legal action.

Here's the info anyway.

Company Details

Name & Registered Office:
MORLEY LIMITED
10 KINGS HILL AVENUE
KINGS HILL WEST MALLING
MAIDSTONE
KENT ME19 4LT
Company No. 03203923

Status: Active
Date of Incorporation: 24/05/1996

Country of Origin: United Kingdom
Company Type: Private Limited Company
Nature of Business (SIC( 03 )):
6522 - Other credit granting
Accounting Reference Date: 31/10
Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/10/2006 (FULL)
Next Accounts Due: 31/08/2008
Last Return Made Up To: 24/05/2006
Next Return Due: 21/06/2007
Last Members List: 24/05/2006
Previous Names: Date of change
Previous Name 29/08/1996 FINANCE FOR HOME LOANS ( 2 ) LIMITED

.

[LuggerBugs]

OOOh, you gotta love how nice, friendly and helpful those nice people at Cabot are. They only want to help...


We are able to offer flexible repayment schemes, including a range of settlements and various regular monthly repayment plans. You can make payments by Direct Debit, standing order, Credit or Debit Card, by post or over the Post Office Counter using 'Cabot's' own payment card.
Please ask us about our Secured Loan and remortgage options. These may offer a better alternative to some customers in reorganising their finances.


Like feck they do!!!! They're obviously not content with scamming you out of money they in all probability don't have any right to. Now they want to keep you as a "customer" for the rest of your life!!!!

Can these people get any lower? I know ameoba that are higher life forms.

[Sapphire]

Any news ?

sapphire

[LuggerBugs]

Not a peep Sapphire. But that's not unusual with this lot, as you know. Maybe the next thing will be a letter threatening legal action? I do hope so.

[Sapphire]

Not a peep Sapphire. But that's not unusual with this lot, as you know. Maybe the next thing will be a letter threatening legal action? I do hope so.

Oh you can live in hope can't you hun it all makes for an interesting time doesn't it.

sapphire

[veilside01702]

Go luggerbugs......lol
I just realised who you are from over the road.....lol
I am behind you on this one as had similar thing with EGG.....lol
Did you SAR Barclaycard???
At least that way they would have to prove who sent the hello, goodbye letters??
I have a call coming from them tomorrow apparently.....lol
As I have writen to EGG holding them liable for the conduct of the DCA....
EGG have taken the file and case back in house......lol
Seems they didn't like the sound of court action.....lol

[LuggerBugs]

Barclaycard have told me it's nothing to do with them any more. I've to just deal with Cabot.

Silly, Barclaycard. Very silly. Doesn't matter if you've washed your hands of me. I'm not finished with YOU yet.

[veilside01702]

oh....lugger......lol
I fear for the Barclaycard legal team....lol
And I don't believe that cabot know what they have unleashed.....lol
If you need any help.....just ask....
Russ

[LuggerBugs]

Any news ?

sapphire

Yes indeedy, there is now. (What happened to my thread by the way? Bits seemed to be missing)

Well, I have had a letter back from them. Don't know exactly what it says yet, as I'm still at sea. BUT. They have sent me a cheque for £1, in response to me querying their right to it, since they don't accept they have any duties under the CCA 1974.

So obviously I won't be cashing it, as I would imagine that should I do so, I would be accepting their nonsense about having the rights but not the duties under the CCA. Not sending it back either for it to disappear in mysterious circumstances.

My advice to anyone who has CCA'd Cabot is, write to them. Tell them that if the duties of the original creditor truly do not apply to them, then you would like the £1 statutory fee back that they cashed under false pretenses. After all, if as they say, the duties do NOT apply to them, they should never have accepted or cashed your payment in the first place. So false representation is till a valid accusation, IMHO.

I still advise new Cabot victims to CCA them, and include the statutory fee. And it will be interesting to see if they have learned any lessons now, and if they will return the payment uncashed. I suspect not, though. They seem to think they can con you into accepting their sh1te about the payment being in part payment towards an alleged debt. And I think that will be their standard tactic for a while.

If nothing else, this will cause them more trouble than it's worth. I'd imagine it costs them more that a quid to process and return that £1. And if it ruins someones day down at Cabot Towers, then it's another small victory in the ongoing war to try to get them to act in a lawful, instead of just plain awful, way.

[LuggerBugs]

Hmm. I can't see the last few posts of my thread if I use Firefox. Oh, well.