Threat of CCC - Mortimer Clarke Solicitors / Cabot Financial

[jon1965]

Re: Threat of CCC - Mortimer Clarke Solicitors / Cabot Financial

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/77

https://fshandbook.info/FS/html/FCA/CONC/13/1

There are links to the relevant legislation/rules

[TLivo99]

Re: Threat of CCC - Mortimer Clarke Solicitors / Cabot Financial

I'll check on Noddle for the last payment, I know that after the last payment I have not put anything in writing to them or acknowledged any letters

[jon1965]

Re: Threat of CCC - Mortimer Clarke Solicitors / Cabot Financial

That what's concerning me as far as I can recall there were T's & C's on the back of the signature page and 4 pages in all i.e. 2 A4 sheets with text on all pages. If it's is a recon it must have the T's & C's at closure of the account even if they are identical.



nem

For reference where does it say that, I can see no mention of it in the FCA handbook


TLivo
The date of last payment will be useful but please do not get it mixed up with the start of the Limitations period . Some people argue that it the date of the first missed payment but it seems judges are now looking at the date the company can first demand payment which may be the date a Default Notice expires

[nemesis45]

Re: Threat of CCC - Mortimer Clarke Solicitors / Cabot Financial

I'll check on Noddle for the last payment, I know that after the last payment I have not put anything in writing to them or acknowledged any letters

Noddle probably wont show the last payment, but the
default date will be helpful as this is a
loan.

nem

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Threat of CCC - Mortimer Clarke Solicitors / Cabot Financial

Hi Nem,

Front page is agreement, second page is T&C's (see photo)

Is the copy you have as illegible as the one you've posted?

Hi again
That is not a recon agreement it looks like a copy of the original, unfortunately I can not read the detail. Did you scan it or take a picture?
Somewhere I think I have a copy of a Hitachi fixed term agreement from 2011 so will dig it out and see what it looks like

Nor can I.

Hi
Without actually seeing the paperwork it is almost impossible to say if this fulfils your request . An example, I have a Halifax loan that not only fails S127(3) and is therefore irredeemably unenforceable but they also failed the S77 request because on the agreement they refer to clause 9 overleaf, guess what they is no clause 9

If it's a recon it my be a s.77 issue but it it's a copy of the original it may also be a s.127(3) issue if the agreement was incomplete to start with.

[TLivo99]

Re: Threat of CCC - Mortimer Clarke Solicitors / Cabot Financial

That what's concerning me as far as I can recall there were T's & C's on the back of the signature page and 4 pages in all i.e. 2 A4 sheets with text on all pages. If it's is a recon it must have the T's & C's at closure of the account even if they are identical.

History please.

What is the default date on this account?#
Can you recall or do you know when the last payment or acknowledgment of the debt was made?
Is this showing on credit reference files? ( Easy check Noddle it's free online.

nem

Its on Noddle, date of default Dec 2009, does this help, I think the last payment may of been as early as June 2009

[jon1965]

Re: Threat of CCC - Mortimer Clarke Solicitors / Cabot Financial

FP

The agreement was Nov 07 so 127(3) won't come into it

[TLivo99]

Re: Threat of CCC - Mortimer Clarke Solicitors / Cabot Financial

FP

The agreement was Nov 07 so 127(3) won't come into it

Sorry - what does this mean 127(3) ?

[jon1965]

Re: Threat of CCC - Mortimer Clarke Solicitors / Cabot Financial

For agreements pre April 2007, if they are not properly executed they are unenforceable in court because of S127(3) of the CCA. Sadly it was repealed

The default date of Dec probably means that you will have to wait until then for it to be SB.

As FP said, is what they sent you as illegible as it looks on here?

I would definitely be writing back to them saying it does not comply with S77 CCA.

[nemesis45]

Re: Threat of CCC - Mortimer Clarke Solicitors / Cabot Financial

Its on Noddle, date of default Dec 2009, does this help, I think the last payment may of been as early as June 2009

All very border line, do you recall receiving a Demand for Immediate Payment in Full or a Final Demand Letter?

nem

[jon1965]

Re: Threat of CCC - Mortimer Clarke Solicitors / Cabot Financial

Looking back you wrote to the solicitors asking them for certain documents, did you get any of them at all?
Should court action happen , which isn't definite either way, it can form part of your defence in that you can not tell if it is accurate as they failed to provide you with info. I mean without details of the assignment who is to say you owe them anything

[TLivo99]

Re: Threat of CCC - Mortimer Clarke Solicitors / Cabot Financial

Looking back you wrote to the solicitors asking them for certain documents, did you get any of them at all?
Should court action happen , which isn't definite either way, it can form part of your defence in that you can not tell if it is accurate as they failed to provide you with info. I mean without details of the assignment who is to say you owe them anything

Hi Jon,

No, Solicitors just sent a letter back saying they were requesting the info from ther client and would forward it on when received. I then received a letter from Cabot saying they were unable to provide the requested info in the time period blah blah blah. Nothing else since until today.

- - - Updated - - -

All very border line, do you recall receiving a Demand for Immediate Payment in Full or a Final Demand Letter?

nem

Im unsure on this one....

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Threat of CCC - Mortimer Clarke Solicitors / Cabot Financial

Thanks all,

What should i do now?

1) ignore the letter and wait for an actual solicitors letter and subsequent CC letter?
2) reply offering anything?

or
3) something different?

I certainly wouldn't reply offering anything because that would constitute acknowledgment of the debt and would restart the clock :scared: unless it was already SBd in which case it can't be 'un-barred', however, it doesn't appear to be the case yet, but being so close, you want to tread carefully.

You could reply saying that the copy you've received is illegible:

Dear Sirs

Account No: XXXXXXXX

On XX/XX/XXXX I wrote requesting a copy of the credit agreement for the above account. The documents I received appear to be an illegible photocopy of the agreement and terms, where the prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 are not readable. The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 (SI/1557) states:

2 - Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the [background medium upon which the information is displayed].

Since the documents supplied do not meet the requirements set out by current legislation, they cannot be said to satisfy my request under s.77/79 of the CCA and my request remains outstanding until such time you provide a legible copy of the original purported document, if it exists. If it does not, then you must confirm this to me.

Yours faithfully,

Its on Noddle, date of default Dec 2009, does this help, I think the last payment may of been as early as June 2009

Defaults are MEANT TO BE recorded three to six months after you first miss a payment, however, it's not an accurate indicator. As long as you don't acknowledge the debt in writing as noted above, the clock will keep running till the issue a claim, so if they do, it may well be SBd by then.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Threat of CCC - Mortimer Clarke Solicitors / Cabot Financial

FP

The agreement was Nov 07 so 127(3) won't come into it

Oh I see...

Sorry - what does this mean 127(3) ?

It refers to s.127(3) of the Consumer Credit Act which was repealed with effect from April 2007 but not retroactively, meaning it still applies is you opened the account before that time: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...on/127/enacted

(3)The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

If you look at the current version of the Act, you'll find that paragraph is no longer there: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/127

[TLivo99]

Re: Threat of CCC - Mortimer Clarke Solicitors / Cabot Financial

So does the consensus of opionion see to be to reply to the letter received as per FP or like Jon suggest?, to as a minimum, put in some delays for as long as possible?

If I also understal correctly, if the DF should be applied betweeen 3-6 months, that means final payment, at worst could have been September 2009, but possibly earlier at around June 2009. So therefore the longer I can delay the more chance that it would be SB? Is there no way of finding out if its SB, or would that only become apparent in court documentation?

thanks again for all your help?