Help Appreciated With Cabot

[Curlyben]

Re: Help Appreciated With Cabot

Oh just had another thought here and it's to do with the assignment.

Now we know Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd buy the accounts and Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd do the chasing.

So who has brought the action ??

To be valid it should be from the debt purchaser as they have the assignment..

[xrm1]

Re: Help Appreciated With Cabot

Have checked back on the original claim form and it is definitely Cabot Financial (UK) Ltd who have brought the action.

Now though this recent letter from Morgan Solicitors states the debt has been transferred to them - I was under the impression this is not supposed to happen once an action has been brought.

Even though we know Morgans are Cabot in-house solicitors they are registered as a separate company so if they now 'own' the alleged debt does that not make the original claim from Cabot invalid?

[Curlyben]

Re: Help Appreciated With Cabot

Hmm odd one.
Not sure how that would actually work as they are solicitors.
No matter, simply gives yet another avenue for attack, the whole assignment paper trail..

[xrm1]

Re: Help Appreciated With Cabot

Well looks like I will be seeing Cabot/Morgans in Court soon. I have today received a skeleton argument and draft order which is far too long to post up. Basically it says they have supplied a credit agreement (no you haven't), a notice of assignment (no you haven't) and a deed of assignment (er - no you haven't). Anything else I have asked for in CPR is apparently 'irrelevant'.

But mainly the 25 page document contains about 20 pages of blather about CPR and 'White Book 2009' and why the Court was wrong to issue the orders they are attempting to get stayed.

I would have thought that blatantly telling the courts the Judge was wrong is playing with fire?

It also mentions a witness statement which I haven't seen - should I not have had this before the hearing?

[Curlyben]

Re: Help Appreciated With Cabot

Obviously you need to refute their assertions in the skellie, but it's important to respond to the order. I assume it's an official order from the court.

if you could scan to PDF and mail it over it would be helpful.

[xrm1]

Re: Help Appreciated With Cabot

As you may recall the court issued an order that they comply with my CPR request by a certain date or the claim would be struck out. They have now made an application to have that order stayed and it is the draft order requesting that I am referring to.

Their application said they wanted it done without a hearing but the Judge has decided a hearing is necessary and the hearing is Wednesday.

It's funny they ask for their application to be considered without hearing and then bang on about how the Judge was wrong to issue the order in my favour without a hearing.

I could scan in the whole 25 page document if you wanted to have a laugh!

[Curlyben]

Re: Help Appreciated With Cabot

Sounds like they are right royally attempting to frustrate proceedings in this matter and abuse process to boot.

It's a good thing that the judge also believes they are trying it on hence the hearing.

[xrm1]

Re: Help Appreciated With Cabot

Have not been able to update this thread for a while, as the OH has been very ill in hospital (again) and now needs more surgery in September. But as there have been several developments I thought I’d better update and give other people an insight into what Cabot/Morgans are trying on. My apologies in advance but this post is quite long.

Well I went to the application hearing on 8th July and it didn’t go too well. It would appear that Curlyben’s opinion that the judge also thought they were trying it on, hence the hearing, was a tad optimistic.

I took with me a statement of facts aimed at refuting their arguments together with copies of documents they had supplied me and supplied a copy to be passed to him. Unfortunately I think Morgans’ barrister p****d him off by their application which said, on the front, ‘essential pre-hearing reading – 2 hours’.

He said he didn’t have two hours to read it (funny but I thought that was what he was paid for) and then proceeded to rip into me for the bundle I had supplied. I tried to point out that it was only for him to refer to during the course of the hearing but he didn’t seem to be interested.

He then made it perfectly clear that he thought I owed the money. The conversation went something like:
DJ: Oh come on Mr ********, you owe this money don’t you.
Me: No, I don’t believe I do.
DJ: Well you have borrowed money haven’t you.
Me: Yes, I have borrowed money in the past but I believe this debt has been satisfied.

I then went on to explain how I had re-mortgaged and paid off a load of credit cards but it was evident he didn’t believe me. It all went downhill from there. The original Order was that Cabot would comply with my CPR request or the case would be struck out. They put in an application to have this set aside as they say they had complied. I argued that they hadn’t complied as, amongst others, they had failed to produce an enforceable agreement.

Their barrister argued that whether the agreement was enforceable or not was a matter for trial and the DJ agreed. I counter argued that it should be decided there and then as if it wasn’t enforceable then, not only had they not complied, but the claim should never have been brought in the first place. Unfortunately I was just wasting my breath.

It continued much the same with every item of paperwork. The barrister basically said they had supplied everything they were required to and that my arguments were a matter for trial and, despite my efforts, the Judge agreed. He thought they had complied even though he made no attempt to even look at the copy documents I had given him and didn’t seem at all interested in the copy of my credit history showing the debt as ‘satisfied’.

He said the case should proceed to trial ‘as soon as possible’ and allocated it to the fast track. He made it quite clear he would not be hearing the case and I got the impression he just wanted to get the case off his list.

The one point the Judge did concede was that Cabot had failed to provide me with a complete set of statements and ordered them to do so. He also ordered me to provide evidence to back up my beliefs that I had paid the debt off. The full order can be seen here.

Surprise, surprise I did not receive anything from Cabot by 5th August. With regard to my bit of the Order, I have found the paperwork for the re-mortgage showing both the original mortgage and secured loan being paid off and a residual cash amount.

I have obtained copies of statements from my bank showing this residual amount being paid in and, thereafter, several large cheque withdrawals. I have contacted the bank again and asked for copies of the cheques (under DPA) but as yet have not heard anything back. I have written another letter chasing them up.

I also wrote to Barclaycard (SAR-DPA) asking for all information they hold on me relating to the account. Furthermore the request was quite explicit in that the information should include (but not be limited to) the following:

1. A copy of the signed and properly executed credit agreement (not the application form) containing all the prescribed terms as required under the Consumer Credit Act.
2. A copy of the Terms and Conditions that applied to the account at the time of application.
3. Copies of a complete set of statements and transactions for the entire duration of the account.
4. A copy of any Default Notice.
5. A copy of any Notice of Assignment.

As of Friday 14th I had not had a response from Barclaycard either so I wrote to the Court explaining that I was having difficulty in obtaining the information and requesting an extension. I also informed the Court that Cabot had failed to comply with their part of the Order. I then sent a copy of this letter to Morgans.

Seems my letter spurred them into action as, two days later, I received a letter from Morgans. All they sent was another partial set of statements and a list of the charges/interest they had applied. Strange though that the statements supplied this time do not even go as far as the statements they supplied previously and only show the incorrect amount on which their charges/interest are based.

From previous statements supplied and by their own admission this amount is incorrect regardless of whether I believe I have already settled. They maintain that is sufficient to comply with the Order although the order is very specific in that they are to supply statements from Jan ’06 to the date of issue. Time to inform the Court again?

In the meantime I also received a letter from B/Card with none of the information I requested, bar a partial set of statements and a list of charges going back six years. Appears the person responsible for the reply has chosen to ignore the content of my request and has had the arrogance to assume that she knows exactly what information I require and for what purpose I require it. I have threatened B/Card with a Court Order if they do not comply with my SAR as it could reveal information to back up my claim.

I have thought about putting in an application to have the claim struck out for several reasons (no agreement, incorrect amounts on POC, failure to comply with a CPR request, failure to comply with a court order etc.) but, at the moment, I have also failed to comply with a Court Order so I don’t want to push my luck.

I also realise that I may not be able to prove I have paid it off even if I am right. The DJ has warned me that, if it goes to Fast Track and I lose, I could face considerable costs. I don’t know if I am prepared to take that risk with all the health problems my wife has. Therefore, I have been thinking several times lately that I should just try to agree a repayment plan and make it all go away. With trying to look after the wife everything just seems to be getting on top of me.

[Curlyben]

Re: Help Appreciated With Cabot

What an utter nightmare for you.

This obviously wasn't the same DJ that made the original order.
Unfortunately there's little that can be done if the DJ is already against you.

Did Cabot actually provide all of the assignment paperwork compliant with LoP s136 as that's another line of attack ??

Now while this has been allocated Fast Track, there is still hope.
We know the "agreement" is for toffee and that alone should of been enough to have this fail at AQ, but for the DJ's attitude to debtors.

You need to continue pressing B'card for the SAR information as that will go along way on the assignment as well as settlement.

As long as you keep the court and Cabot appraised of the situation here, there's little further they can really do.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Help Appreciated With Cabot

Just a word of encouragement, regarding the attitude of the DJ:

It is totally irrelevant whether or not the debt, if one existed at all, is owed.

The fact is, based on Cabot/Morgan/Deano's paperwork to date, their claim is unenforcable, debt or no debt.

Simple as. End of.

[xrm1]

Re: Help Appreciated With Cabot

With regard to the assignment they have supplied me with some paperwork:
A copy of the Deed of Assignment – however, this Deed of Assignment, whilst making interesting reading, is nothing more than a large generic contract with no specifics and blank pages. It does not mention my name or the alleged account number anywhere within the document body.

They have also supplied two supposedly true copies of the notice of assignment. The first has the Monument letterhead etc. but quotes the wrong amount.

I have statements (from them) showing a balance on Dec ’04. This balance reduces (due to refund of charges) by the last statement dated Jan ’06. Although the notice of assignment is dated May ’07 it quotes the amount from the Dec ’04 statement.

Morgans admitted that they were unaware these charges had been credited and that the amount in the POC was incorrect. They have failed to amend the POC but, in any case, surely B/Card were aware of the refund of charges and would not have quoted the wrong amount in the NOA. This leads me to believe Cabot have produced the NOA – in which case it is not valid.

Querying this I was supplied with a second ‘true copy’ of the NOA – this one has no letterhead or date to suggest when, or by whom, it was sent. It is addressed and formatted differently from the first and has a different name and signature. The only thing consistent with the first is the quoting of the incorrect amount.

This is why I have SAR’d B/Card – I am trying to get them to admit there was no NOA and that there is no credit agreement. Then I could get the case thrown out without having to prove I have paid the debt off.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
It has just occurred to me that:
a) if Cabot have produced the Notice of Assignment themselves
b) have done it twice with the wrong amount
and
c) they are trying to pass it off as a true copy
then surely this could well constitute fraud and I should bring this matter to the attention of the courts and to the police.

Also if the amount quoted in the POC has been arrived at by applying interest to the incorrect debt amount then the POC is clearly wrong. Is this not enough to get the case thrown out - although I appreciate they could just claim again using the correct amount.

[Curlyben]

Re: Help Appreciated With Cabot

Well Cabot aren't above "reconstructing" assignment documentation in this manner, ask Lugger

Now if there's nothing in these documents to identify you, especially on the actual deed then their cause of action is tenuous if not unlawful.

Yes, you thoughts on the Fraud Act are certainly valid and maybe wroth closer scrutiny.

There already appears to be serious holes in their POC as it stands.
Also, under what provision, do they believe they can add further interest and charges to this account ?!?!

[xrm1]

Re: Help Appreciated With Cabot

The comments from both Curlyben and LuggerBugs are much appreciated and have served to strengthen my resolve in dealing with these muppets.

Have checked out the Fraud Act and it says:

2 Fraud by false representation
(1) A person is in breach of this section if he -
(a) dishonestly makes a false representation, and
(b) intends, by making the representation –
(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or
(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.

I guess this would cover the falsifying of the NOA to claim on an unsubstantiated, alleged debt.

Time, I think, for a letter to Morgans stating 'you have not complied with the Court Order. Oh, and by the way, you have not addressed my concerns regarding the validity of the NOAs. You have 7 days to furnish me with a satisfactory explanation or I shall inform the Court and report the matter to Kent Constabulary and request that they investigate your client for possible FRAUD!'

[Sapphire]

Re: Help Appreciated With Cabot

Oh dear sounds like they are up to their old tricks again, when oh when are this shower going to learn.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Help Appreciated With Cabot

Cabot will say, and the OC will back them up, that there is an "agreeement" between themselves whereby Cabot are allowed to write and send the Goodbye letter, as well as their own "hello" letter.

In my book, that is nothing more than an attempt at Passing Off, although my bestest buddy Willum begs to differ. Well, he would, wouldn't he.

However, the OC is not actually required to send you anything to tell you that the account has been assigned. So I think that might be wasting too much energy to concentrate on.

More specifically though, if you have never been served, or it has been improperly served, a Notice of Assignment, then the so-called assignment is exactly that: so-called. Without it having been properly assigned, the new owners CANNOT sue. They don't actually own sweet FA.

That's not to say that it is a show stopper, because all they would need to do to make the assignment effective, is to issue you with a new, properly executed, NOA. But that would mean starting the whole process off all over again. And they should already know they are shafted by virtue of S127(3) in any case.

Would they bother to keep trying? A sensible person would say not. But then, we are talking about Wellinghoff and his buddies in the Morgans office. Solicitor wannabe, as I like to think of my mate Willum.