How to start a Small Claims Court case where a debt is disputed.

[saltedhashed]

I have a long running dispute with my domestic electricity supplier which has been ongoing for four or five years now. I have actually not paid for any energy usage for around 7 years and refuse to do so until the supply company agrees with me the amount correctly due.

For their part, they do not reply to letters and will not talk to me on the phone - I have said I will not agree to them recording the conversation unless they provide me with a copy. They repeatedly threaten debt collectors, legal action etc but never actually do anything. They have appointed two firms of lawyers to deal with the case on their behalf but after making threats the lawyers vanish after which, they will not reply to letters either.

I am a vulnerable pensioner and as confident as may be that a part of the debt amounting to several thousand pounds which they are claiming, is not legally due/payable. The continual threats and demands are annoying and potentially could be life threatening in my case so you may understand that I want to get this sorted out once and for all.

I have taken action myself in the past in the Small Claims Court to collect amounts I have been owed.but everything I can find about starting a case through the small claims procedures seems to work on the basis that the person taking action is the one who is owed rather than the one who owes money. Is anyone able to say whether I can deal with this through small claims and if so how would I go about it? If it isn't possible, what are the alternative(s please?

[echat11]

Hi Saltedhashed

Welcome to LB


I'm not sure that's the best way of getting this resolved.

Some elements of the debt they are claiming, might be 'mitigated' by the 'Back billing' if it is the fault of the energy company.

What you need to do is send them a Subject Access Request, they have 30 days to respond. If you have an email address you can email it to them.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ccess-request/

Because you are 'vulnerable', you can contact Citizen Advice Bureau, ask them to pass your case onto the Extra Help Unit in Scotland, they may or may not take up your case.

https://ehu.org.uk/

Update the thread once you've tried that.

[saltedhashed]

Hi echat11,

Thanks for that.

I mentioned that this has been ongoing for a number of years and you may therefore appreciate that there is a vast amount of background and detail which I haven't gone into at all in my original post. I will set out some of the back story in brief:- even in brief this is a case of 'how long have you got?'

In July 2018 my supply contract came up for annual renewal and, having looked for a good deal, signed up with a company I had not come across before. I never heard from them again. They did not invoice supplies, they did not provide a contract or take any payment from my bank.

At the time, I was running my own business which involved business premises and long hours together with various other factors which meant that I did not realise I was being neither invoiced for, nor making payment for electricity at my home.

This is where the vulnerable pensioner bit comes in. In mid-year 2019 I suffered an aortic dissection (type A) which is a medical emergency involving a split aorta. I was treated to 10 hours of open heart surgery during which the body temperature is reduced below the usual 37 degrees C. A side effect of this is that it damages the memory. The statistics I found at the time for aortic dissection were that roughly 50% of victims do not make it to the hospital, roughly half of those that do, don't make it out again and of those remaining, around 30% survive for 5 years. Doing the maths, having achieved that milepost, I am therefore in the luckiest 7%! However, I am not supposed to lift anything heavy, nor to become stressed, which is why I want to get the supply company dealt with and off my back as soon as I can, part of that being so that I can transfer my custom to a more reasonable supplier.

It was not until late 2020 that I thought it seemed a long time since I had been notified on the annual review for the home electricity contract. On looking into it, I found that I had not paid for any supplies for more than 2 years. However, I couldn't at this point, recall who it was that I had signed up with. I found out that the regional distribution company maintains records of who the power supplier is so I rang them to be told that the supplier for my address was a company I had previous bad experience of, and which I could not imagine that I would have signed up with even if they were giving energy away for free.

Making the assumption that what the distribution company had said was a mistake, I decided to leave it for a couple of weeks and try again. When I then contacted them a second time, I was given the name of a different company and, although I could not recall ever having heard of them before, I wrote to them, explaining what had happened and giving a current reading.

In fact, I subsequently discovered that neither company whose names I had been given by the regional distributor were the company I had signed up with. That original supplier had gone bust and the companies whose names I had been given were actually appointed as supplier of last resort (SOLR) as part of arrangements to ensure continuity of supply.. However, apart from never hearing from the original company regarding billing, I had also not received anything from anyone about their insolvency, nor about the appointment of an SOLR. (In case it is ever relevant, IMHO it is very apparent in my first letter to the SOLR, that I had no idea they were not the original supplier. It may also be relevant to the legal position that I have never signed up to any contract with the SOLR and neither was I given details of contract terms etc at the inception of the contract.

Shortly after writing, I received an invoice from the SOLR company covering the last billing period but including a "brought forward" figure of around £2,500. This is the amount which is the subject of the dispute. I have never seen any invoices for any of this balance. I have been told by Ofgem that I am entitled to copies of the invoices. The supplier has admitted that they do not now have them and it appears probable that they simply acquired the debt from a previous company without asking for any details of what it involved. Not only do they not have copies of the actual invoices, they do not even have details of the individual invoice dates/amounts comprised in the balance, nor any meter readings (actual or estimated).

Back billing is not relevant to this matter apparently, for the reason that the back billing rules do not apply to the appointment of an SOLR. However, the problem I perceive is that I never received even one invoice from the original supplier or any SOLR for any supplies during the period from mid-2018 up to late 2020. If the current supplier bought a debt balance from a previous supplier, then that supplier has to have a valid debt due. To create a valid debt, invoices have to be correctly raised and sent out. A claimed balance of £2,500 is a lot more than one invoice and it is difficult if not impossible to believe that someone sent out bills regularly over whatever period but that not one of them reached me. Either they were not ever issued or their name and address details were sufficiently defective as to make delivery impossible.

I have been harrassed and threatened by the current suppler for a number of years. I really do not want to go round and round more help agencies which may well end up wasting a number of months whilst achieving nothing in the way of benefit to me. I have been to the Ombudsman, I have involved my MP neither of which was any help. I just want to get it into Court so there will be a final ruling and I will either have to pay the money I don't believe is due or the supplier will be told they can't collect it.

[echat11]

What did the Ombudsman say?

Also, the Court will want to see what you have done to resolve the matter, if you can show you've tried X, Y, and Z, then that would help your case.

[saltedhashed]

My experience of the Ombudsman was exactly what you would expect if your legal representation in a court case was chosen and paid for by the other side. The Ombudsman's report characterised what I said as 'claims' - e.g. "Mr. XXXX claims that...." whereas what the energy company said was regarded as indisputable fact. The Ombudsman's report stated that I ought to have told the original supply company that they were not billing me, regardless of my having stated that I was not aware that they were not billing me or, putting it another way, the Ombudsman decided I was lying. In reality, as a question of law, I would not think that I had any obligation to draw their shortcomings to their attention. I thought the Ombudsmans report was a shabby piece of work. Apart from anything else, it did not say what, if any, qualifications or experience the person who prepared the report had which made them suitable to undertake the work.

The finding was that the energy company was entitled to charge for energy consumed during the period when they were only acting as SOLR because, the back-billing rules do not apply when an SOLR is appointed. I was awarded £150 compensation for 'poor service'. I rejected the Ombudsmans findings. There was never any follow up.

The dispute I have is not actually anything to do with back billing. Back billing in the context of the electricity supply industry, means the raising of invoices more than 12 months late - i.e. if the supply charged is for the quarter ended 30 April, 2023, if is has not been billed by 30 April, 2024 then it is out of time and cannot be billed. In my case, the supplier is claiming a substantial balance which I have never seen any invoice for. As far as I know, the 'balance brought forward' could be for anything - they could have billed me for the original supply company's chairman's christmas hospitality bill for all I know. I have been told by the Regulator that I am entitled to copies of invoices. The current supplier has simply replied that they do not have them and cannot get them. They seem to think that is adequate.

In a period of 15 consecutive working days within the last 6 or 8 weeks, I received 9 letters from Ovo demanding payment. One day last week a man turned up here in a car and shoved a printed letter through my letter box stating that they had been to the house and had not been able to make contact with me or if they had, they hadn't been able to agree a resolution of the dispute. He then got back in his car without knocking or making any other attempt to make contact and drove off. I wrote and asked how they knew before they came here that they were not going be able to talk to me or reach an agreement! As yet, they have not replied and if previous experience is anything to go by, neither will they. It is in order to put an end to this sort of behaviour that I need to get this into Court and achieve a final resolution before Ovo irretrievably damage my health.

[echat11]

I understand that you want to see the bills, which the energy supplier should provide (OFGEM has said this), how else can they say this is what you owe - £X,XXX. But you should SAR the energy supplier so you can show the Court, that you asked and they haven't complied. You can back your case up with evidence. If OVO energy has been 'harassing' you for money and you believe you don't owe it, then you may have a claim against them for 'harassment' under the Prevention from Harassment Act 1997. They are chasing you for money, but won't give you a 'breakdown' of how much it is.

https://www.casemine.com/judgement/u...d03e7f57eb1025

[saltedhashed]

It seems strange that they have threatened Court action over a periof of several years and then done nothing. One theory mught be that the disputed amount doesn't commercially justify the costs of actually going to Court, having said which, I would be surprised if a big company like Ovo does not have it's own in-house legal team and takes customers to Court as a matter of routine with little regard to costs in any individual case. My guess is that it is more likely that they are well aware that if they do go to Court they will not be able to provide any proof that the disputed amount is a valid debt.

They have also, on more than one occasion, appointed firms of lawyers to enforce debt collection. This also involves threats of Court action but again, no follow up. I have said that I intend to make complaints about both firms to the Data Protection Registrar and the Law Society for various breaches which I have not yet got around to doing.

Having not seen bills for any of the disputed amount, I do not know what period it is supposed to relate to but it may be relevant to note that, even if the back billing rules do not prevent them issuing bills at this point in time due to their being SOLR rsather than the supplier, a part of the period would now be statute barred in any case. Added to that, I would be reasonably confident that they do not now have any relevant meter readings which would effectively prevent the issue of new invoices for any period not invoiced which is still in time.

Could you fill me in on the acronym SAR please? The only thing it means to me is Solicitors Accounts Rules!

I have an exchange of correspondence which includes (a) a letter from Regulator advising I am entitled to see the invoices (b) a letter from me asking for the invoices - (more than one of those) and (c) a letter from supplier saying that it is now 5 years ago and they don't have them. This letter is worded in a way which implies that they actually never had them (i.e. because they bought the debt rather than issuing the invoices in the first place). My letters referred to above were not sent first class but not recorded delivery if that makes a difference. Is that sufficient for Court purposes?

[saltedhashed]

Incidentally, I saw something which said that, if you send someone a letter stating that you intend to take them to Court when you have no intention of doing so, that, in itself, may constitute contempt with all its potential consequences. Is that correct?

[echat11]

Post 2 - What you need to do is send them a Subject Access Request, they have 30 days to respond. If you have an email address you can email it to them.

https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ccess-request/

[Pezza54]

Incidentally, I saw something which said that, if you send someone a letter stating that you intend to take them to Court when you have no intention of doing so, that, in itself, may constitute contempt with all its potential consequences. Is that correct?

A letter before action (also known as a letter before claim) is a formal letter sent by the claimant complying with court protocol. The intention of this letter is to try to resolve the dispute without court action.
The letter usually ends with the claimant may or intends to start a court claim if a satisfactory agreement is not reached
There is no contempt of court if the claimant decides not to make a court claim.

[saltedhashed]

This is in response to Echatt11's most recent post above.

I am not sure that I understand what a Subject Access Request (SAR) would bring to the table.

I currently have:-

(a) a copy of my letter to Ovo which states that I have been advised by the Regulator that I am entitled to copies of the invoices and asks them to provide them, and

(b) their letter in reply to mine stating that the invoices involved were issued by a different and completely separate company and that they do not have copies and that they do not have any access to them.

Is the suggestion that there is some reason that the Court would not accept these items as evidence because I haven't done an SAR?

It has also occurred to me whilst writing this that your reference to an SAR may mean an SAR to either the company which issued the invoices or to the company which is currently demanding payment.

There are actually 3 companies involved here.

The first is the supplier I originally contracted with, which got into financial difficulties and which has since been formally wound up and struck off. Their insolvency would have been handled by a professional liquidator. Once the liquidation is completed, the company records are disposed of and the liquidator is formally released from his reponsibility. I have already tried contacting the firm which acted as liquidators in this case and they do not, as you would expect, even reply to or acknowledge letters. If it were that first company which originally issued the missing invoices, then neither they nor the information which was on them will even exist. I obviously also cannot do an SAR on that company due to it being struck off.

The second company involved is the one which was appointed SOLR for the first.

The third is my current supplier. I believe the story here is that the second and third companies were members of the same group at the time my account seems to have been transferred between them without my knowledge or consent.

I intend to refer back to the Regulator and try to get clarification as to which company might have issued the invoices which no one has.

I would be interested to hear which company it is recommended that I should make an SAR to and also what it would achieve, especially bearing in mind that the company involved presumably/likely would not deal with it for 30 days.

[saltedhashed]

May I politely mention that there has been no comment on my original request for advice as regards whether you can, or how you would, start procedings in the Small Claims Court if you are the debtor disputing the claim rather than the creditor demanding payment other than assorted reasons to do other things.

I am asking for advice in this case because, no matter how many times they issue threats of action, I do not believe that the creditor company has any intention of actually doing so as they must be well aware that they cannot prove the debt is due and would therefore lose in Court.