Court Claim - defence submitted recieved Directions questionaire

[warwick65]

Re: Court Claim - defence submitted recieved Directions questionaire

Hi
i am just curious as to what your defence is

Did you send a formal CCA request with the appropriate fee to the claimant ?

You say you sent a CPR18 request - what did you ask for in it?

Was your initial advice from a now defunct website/forum

The answer they gave about it couldn't be statute barred because it was assigned in August is utter hokum and the date on yoru credit file may also be a red herring

Can you remember when the last payment was made?

It may be worth sending a SAR to shop direct or at the very least giving them a call to ask when the last payment was actually made

- - - Updated - - -

By the way, if you intend to attend your local court i believe you should put 1 in the number of witnesses but I stand to be corrected

[MIKE770]

Re: Court Claim - defence submitted recieved Directions questionaire

put 1 i.e. that is you!

[Audiocash]

Re: Court Claim - defence submitted recieved Directions questionaire

Hi
i am just curious as to what your defence is

Did you send a formal CCA request with the appropriate fee to the claimant ?

You say you sent a CPR18 request - what did you ask for in it?

Was your initial advice from a now defunct website/forum

The answer they gave about it couldn't be statute barred because it was assigned in August is utter hokum and the date on yoru credit file may also be a red herring

Can you remember when the last payment was made?

It may be worth sending a SAR to shop direct or at the very least giving them a call to ask when the last payment was actually made

- - - Updated - - -

By the way, if you intend to attend your local court i believe you should put 1 in the number of witnesses but I stand to be corrected

Hi Warwick,

I didn't send a CCA request as Lucas credit had sent a copy of the agreement after my Statue barred letter!!

In my CPR 18 request I asked of the below

1.The agreement/contract, including the specific Terms at the point the alleged Agreement was made and any subsequent changes. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the originals should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.
2.The deed of assignment
3.The notice of assignment
4.The default warning letter
5.The default notice


Yes my initial advice was from GOODF I have successful had a claim struck out before from the advice on non production of documents! So followed the same process but without the CCA request as an agreement had been sent prior to Pre action.

I managed to speak with an advisor at shop direct and the last payment made to the account was on 3rd January 2011

Do you think it is worth sending a SAR to shop direct?

Thank you for your help

[Audiocash]

Re: Court Claim - defence submitted recieved Directions questionaire

C1 is to give your preference for the track.
A case such as yours will virtually certainly be Small Claims.

Bring up lack of documentation with the Mediation Service &, if still applicable at the time, in your Witness Statement (in due course).

Contact the court re change of sols, but if in doubt, carry on with Cohens until you are officially advised otherwise.

Thank you for the advice so to be clear officially advised would be the court telling me not Cohen or Lowell?

[Audiocash]

Re: Court Claim - defence submitted recieved Directions questionaire

Hi Warwick,

I didn't send a CCA request as Lucas credit had sent a copy of the agreement after my Statue barred letter!!

In my CPR 18 request I asked of the below

1.The agreement/contract, including the specific Terms at the point the alleged Agreement was made and any subsequent changes. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the originals should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.
2.The deed of assignment
3.The notice of assignment
4.The default warning letter
5.The default notice


Yes my initial advice was from GOODF I have successful had a claim struck out before from the advice on non production of documents! So followed the same process but without the CCA request as an agreement had been sent prior to Pre action.

I managed to speak with an advisor at shop direct and the last payment made to the account was on 3rd January 2011

Do you think it is worth sending a SAR to shop direct?

Thank you for your help

Hi Warwick,

My defence below

Defence

I. The Defendant denies monies are owed to the Claimant as alleged
in the Particulars of Claim and does not recognise the assertion
that any debt has been Legally Assigned to the Claimant and as
such the Claimant is put to the strictest of proof, including but
not limited to:

I. Pursuant to s.77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA1974)
the Original Signed Consumer Credit Agreement, along with a copy
of the original Terms & Conditions and any subsequent changes in
said Terms & Conditions (referred to as the ‘Regulated Agreement’
within the Particulars of Claim) and show how the Defendant has
entered into an agreement.

II. Show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed by
proving a full Statement of the Account referred to, including
details of all payments made and calculation of how interest was
charged against each item listed, leading to the Alleged Debt of
£xxx.xx

III. Also, as this is an Alleged Debt, I believe Penalty Charges
may have been applied to the Account and as such may be unlawful
under the Unfair Consumer Contract Terms Regulations 1999.
Therefore, I would request details of each and every Penalty
Charge applied to the Account along with details of their
lawfulness (i.e. if the charge is stated as being for
‘Administration’ what Administration was undertaken to support the
Penalty Charge being applied) along with details of any Interest
imposed against each Penalty Charge applied.

IV. Show how and when the agreement was breached and provide
notice by way of Notice of Sums in Arrears served by the Original
Owners along with a copy of the Default Notice from the original
owners of the Alleged Debt and Certified Copies of how this was
served upon the Defendant.

V. Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute
or equity to issue a claim by providing the following:

a) A copy of the Default Notice referred to in the Particulars of
Claim and Certified Copies of how this was served upon the
Defendant, again as referred to in the Particulars of Claim.

b) As claimant has stated the debt was ‘assigned to the claimant
on Friday 12th August 2011’ a copy of the Legal Assignment,
including, but not limited to a copy of the Deed of Assignment and
/ or Deed of Tripartite Novation.

c) A copy of how the Defendant was served with the aforementioned
Legal Assignment.
d) A copy of the Alleged Notice of Assignment sent by the original
creditor to the Defendant and details of how this was Served upon
the Defendant.

e) Details of the costs paid by the Claimant to the Original Owner
for the Alleged Assignment of the Agreement on Friday 12th August
2011(as referenced in Section 1 of the Particulars of Claim).

VI. As per Civil Procedure rules 16.5(4), it is expected that the
Claimant prove the allegation (as set out in the Particulars of
Claim) that the money is owed.

VII. Also, should any amount be inclusive of interest, the
Defendant denies interest is payable in accordance with Section 69
of County Courts Act 1984 and again the Claimant is put to the
Strictest of Proof.

VIII. I would also like to take this opportunity to remind you
under Civil Procedure Rule Part 39 PD 39a (3.3) any documents upon
which the claimant intends to rely the ORIGINALS should be brought
to any subsequent hearing for examination.

IX. Also in my defence, I am not a Solicitor and after having read
the Particular of Claim I cannot see any legislation has been
quoted in support of the Claimants claim against me, which leaves
me unsure under which Statutory Instrument this claim has been
brought. Therefore, again to be able to properly defend this claim
I would request full details of the actual legislation the
Claimant believes gives them a right to make this claim, as surely
no claim can succeed without this being quoted in the Particulars
of the claim?

Statement of Truth

I believe the facts stated in this defence are true.

[charitynjw]

Re: Court Claim - defence submitted recieved Directions questionaire

The solicitors should send you notification.
The court usually confirms.
CPR 42
https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pr...l/rules/part42

[des8]

Re: Court Claim - defence submitted recieved Directions questionaire

As last payment was made on 3rd Jan 2011 and claim issued 16th May 2017, isn't it statute barred?
Assignment date has no effect in spite of that funny assertion.

Or have I missed something?

[warwick65]

Re: Court Claim - defence submitted recieved Directions questionaire

I would agree with Des that the account may well be statute barred

I have noticed one glaring contradiction

You have not sent a CCA request off yet you use it in your defence

For a CCA request to be effective you have to send the formal request off with the appropriate £1 fee. Then they need to produce a copy of , or a reconstituted copy of the original agreement, the terms and conditions at inception and at default as well as a statement saying what the balance outstanding is

I have seen much worse defences from GOODF but I sometimes think the debt purchasers see them and think easy mark because some of the info that site gave out was pure rubbish ( there were some very useful people who dealt with court claims though)


One last question- the agreement that Lucas sent you was it signed?

In either case when was the account opened?

I must also ask, you say you believe the account was opened fraudulently - quite a serious allegation and if you are going to use it you need to make a complaint to the police - or so I believe
Making it a criminal matter is a whole new can of worms

[Audiocash]

Re: Court Claim - defence submitted recieved Directions questionaire

I would agree with Des that the account may well be statute barred

I have noticed one glaring contradiction

You have not sent a CCA request off yet you use it in your defence

For a CCA request to be effective you have to send the formal request off with the appropriate £1 fee. Then they need to produce a copy of , or a reconstituted copy of the original agreement, the terms and conditions at inception and at default as well as a statement saying what the balance outstanding is

I have seen much worse defences from GOODF but I sometimes think the debt purchasers see them and think easy mark because some of the info that site gave out was pure rubbish ( there were some very useful people who dealt with court claims though)


One last question- the agreement that Lucas sent you was it signed?

In either case when was the account opened?

I must also ask, you say you believe the account was opened fraudulently - quite a serious allegation and if you are going to use it you need to make a complaint to the police - or so I believe
Making it a criminal matter is a whole new can of worms

Hi Warwick,

I have seen in other threads on the forum that a CCA request could be still sent off now is this correct?

I didn't send a CCA request as Lucas sent a credit agreement I didn't see the point in asking for this again.

After my Statue barred letter they sent an agreement with no signature just my name typed in the box!

In my CPR 18 Request I did request an original copy of the agreement as above. Which Is why I left this in the defence!

The account was opened on 16/08/2010.

I have no record of this account however my EX had opened a lot of accounts in my name as she had previously gone bankrupt and while I was at work was intercepting the post and making payments etc

thank you for your help it is much appreciated

[warwick65]

Re: Court Claim - defence submitted recieved Directions questionaire

I would certainly get that CCA request off asap

I know the reasoning why the CPR 18 request was used in place of the CPR 31.14 request however from my understanding it was flawed logic - however that is irrelevant now

I feel you have a serious conflict here- if you make an assertion the account was opened fraudulently , you would then have to make a complaint to the police which could bring a whole new level of pain for your ex and it may not be easy to prove

It sounds like the account was opened online where a tick box is all that is required for a signature

Again, I stand to be corrected but i think you have misinterpreted what original documents mean - they do not mean the actual original documents but the documents that were copied to include in the witness statement

I think a SAR would still be useful to show when the last payment was.

[pt2537]

Re: Court Claim - defence submitted recieved Directions questionaire

I would certainly get that CCA request off asap

I know the reasoning why the CPR 18 request was used in place of the CPR 31.14 request however from my understanding it was flawed logic - however that is irrelevant now

I feel you have a serious conflict here- if you make an assertion the account was opened fraudulently , you would then have to make a complaint to the police which could bring a whole new level of pain for your ex and it may not be easy to prove

It sounds like the account was opened online where a tick box is all that is required for a signature

Again, I stand to be corrected but i think you have misinterpreted what original documents mean - they do not mean the actual original documents but the documents that were copied to include in the witness statement

I think a SAR would still be useful to show when the last payment was.

A cpr 18 request can be useful, for example if a party refers to a document in their reply to part 18 then they have disclosed the document in their reply and you can ask for a copy under CPR 31. as a part 18 reply forms part of the pleadings.

Re Online accounts while a tick in the box is technically all that is required, the creditor must still ensure they comply with the CCA and comply with its formalities

[warwick65]

Re: Court Claim - defence submitted recieved Directions questionaire

Re Online accounts while a tick in the box is technically all that is required, the creditor must still ensure they comply with the CCA and comply with its formalities

I don't think the formalities of a S77-79 request were being questioned , just the signing of the agreement , although for a debt of this age that is less relevant

[pt2537]

Re: Court Claim - defence submitted recieved Directions questionaire

I don't think the formalities of a S77-79 request were being questioned , just the signing of the agreement , although for a debt of this age that is less relevant

and i didnt mention s77-79 either did i now my dear boy

My point is, the creditor even with an online application still has to ensure compliance with the other formalities such as s61A /62/ 66 etc. all of which need looking at, its easy to just assume a lender gets it right, they dont, more often they get it wrong

Thats the point i was alluding to

[warwick65]

Re: Court Claim - defence submitted recieved Directions questionaire

my dear boy

Yes so dear you couldn't afford me. Nice of you to call me a boy though

[Audiocash]

Re: Court Claim - defence submitted recieved Directions questionaire

Thanks Warwick & PT2537,

I will get a CCA request off tomorrow to Lowell! In regards to the SAR. I sent about 40mins on the phone to an advisor at shop direct and they had advised me of the last payment date of Jan 2011 and gave me the amount. Would the SAR be able to be used later on in the process?

In regards to the EX situation this is very tricky as she currently is stopping my daughter staying with me which is why I am treading lightly in this matter! I feel I may have to just take it on the chin in regards to defending this! I am starting court proceeding to get access to my daughter as well!

My last case that was struck out was completed on the case that the debt company could not provide the agreement! I have completed an unless order and received a letter from the Debt company that they could not provide the documents and that they stated they could not enforce the debt. I sent this to the court and the Judge struck out the claim!

So my plan is as follows

1. Return the DQ to Sols and Court
2. CCA request to Lowell
3. SAR request if this would assist
4. Await mediation call and advise that how can I defend my case when no documents have been supplied based on my previous pre action & CPR18 request

Thanks for you help

Audiocash