Letter from Solicitor requesting payment on behalf of a debt collector

[mattjunior]

Re: Letter from Solicitor requesting payment on behalf of a debt collector

They would have to pay for the application, not you.

Not trying to preempt things, but the claim is for £500ish.

Put yourself in their shoes.....would you spend another £250 on a claim where you would only get back £500....if you won?

The balance is roughly £6500 though?

[pt2537]

Re: Letter from Solicitor requesting payment on behalf of a debt collector

It is absolutely more than one balance. When HSBC closed the loan and overdrawn account, they passed it to Metropilitan I think (long time ago). They have always asked for one entire sum but it has always been two accounts, I have found an old credit report tht shows it might be three accounts actually, 2 bank accounts and one loan.

** I have just got off the phone to the court. The case was stayed on the 5th July. Will cost them £100 to reopen it.

To clarify the responses I received after filing my defence:

Arrow have said 'we do not accept that we are the creditor as envisaged by the above statute' (CCA 1974) and also that 'all collection activity will be suspended pending provision of the documents.' - 23rd May 2017

Restons said, that CPR 31.14 doesn't apply because I should have received Tcs and Cs when opening the account (I notice that they stated account, not accounts) and that because the documentation isn't mentioned in the POC, they don't have to provide. 'further to the above, our Client has received your request for a copy of the credit agreement, as such, the matter is now on hold in our office' - 31st May 2017

Arrow are aware of the fact they are the creditor, both under the statute and also under the Judgment of the High Court in Jones which has been referred to on this thread.

I think a complaint to the FCA is in order, i spoke with my contact up there a while ago and they are alive to this issue, and it seems not very impressed by the blatant attempts to mislead the public.

[charitynjw]

Re: Letter from Solicitor requesting payment on behalf of a debt collector

The balance is roughly £6500 though?

Ahh!

Must have misunderstood

Failure to contact by [date next week] will result in further action. Which could include the issue of a County Court Claim for the full balance plus fees and costs [£510].

[mattjunior]

Re: Letter from Solicitor requesting payment on behalf of a debt collector

What are they trying to achieve by claiming not to be the creditor? My preferred outcome is that they walk away, I don't want to involve other agencies if I don't have to. I understand that may not happen but it appears I am in a situation where I have to wait and see. The court said they have a backlog, does this mean that a response may have been submitted in time but they just haven't got to it yet?

If the stay is lifted they said I will be notified immediately.

[warwick65]

Re: Letter from Solicitor requesting payment on behalf of a debt collector

What are they trying to achieve by claiming not to be the creditor? My preferred outcome is that they walk away, I don't want to involve other agencies if I don't have to. I understand that may not happen but it appears I am in a situation where I have to wait and see. The court said they have a backlog, does this mean that a response may have been submitted in time but they just haven't got to it yet?

If the stay is lifted they said I will be notified immediately.

In my opinion they are just trying to mislead and confuse people

maybe they hope that if they say they are not the creditor , you will not bash them for non compliance with CCA and other regulatory duties

I am told the courts have a backlog but I do not know, my DQ was filed pretty quickly after my defence

If it is lifted you should get a DQ through the post but if you are registered on MCOL , you may want to keep an eye pn ot to see if there is any action.

I wouldn't pin your hopes on them walking away easily, there are multiple instances of creditors waiting until almost the steps of the court before discontinuing

[mattjunior]

Re: Letter from Solicitor requesting payment on behalf of a debt collector

I'll look into the FCA. If Arrow are not behaving correctly in this instance by saying they are not the creditor (they claim the debt was transferred to them, so they must be?) I don't want them doing that to others.

[warwick65]

Re: Letter from Solicitor requesting payment on behalf of a debt collector

I do have to agree with PT when he says it is worth a complaint and I think you will be doing the right ting.

Complaints to the FCA are anonymous so AG would not know its you

Maybe [MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION]
Could a campaign be started to encourage everyone who gets one of these letters to complain to the FCA

[mattjunior]

Hi!

So it's been a while.

I heard from Arrow and Restons solicitors periodically after July 17 saying that they were waiting for the documentation I requested (CCA).

On 28/02/18 (i'm working away so have to check my post weekly) Arrow sent me a slew of documents.

A list of payments on the loan account before it was closed
A second list of payments that appears to be to the loan account and then some amounts that look like those sent to HSBC via the DMP arrangement, ending in 2013.
Statements for my old HSBC current and student bank accounts.
A set of overdraft Ts and Cs for the current account arranged sometime in 2008, these do have my name and address on at the top.
A generic copy of general terms and conditions for HSBC accounts from 2008.

Nothing with my signature on and no credit agreements or contracts.

The cover letter is brief, says it encloses requested documentation (it doesn't really, not in my opinion.) and contact details to arrange payment.

Just to confirm, the County Court case has been stayed since July 2011 and Restons have not been in touch for months.

Any thoughts on what I should do next please?

Also, I haven't yet contacted the FCA about Arrow claiming not to be the creditor, I think I started a separate thread at the time but if anyone has thoughts on that, please feel free to share.

All the best and with thanks,

Matt

[pt2537]

Hi!

So it's been a while.

I heard from Arrow and Restons solicitors periodically after July 17 saying that they were waiting for the documentation I requested (CCA).

On 28/02/18 (i'm working away so have to check my post weekly) Arrow sent me a slew of documents.

A list of payments on the loan account before it was closed
A second list of payments that appears to be to the loan account and then some amounts that look like those sent to HSBC via the DMP arrangement, ending in 2013.
Statements for my old HSBC current and student bank accounts.
A set of overdraft Ts and Cs for the current account arranged sometime in 2008, these do have my name and address on at the top.
A generic copy of general terms and conditions for HSBC accounts from 2008.

Nothing with my signature on and no credit agreements or contracts.

The cover letter is brief, says it encloses requested documentation (it doesn't really, not in my opinion.) and contact details to arrange payment.

Just to confirm, the County Court case has been stayed since July 2011 and Restons have not been in touch for months.

Any thoughts on what I should do next please?

Also, I haven't yet contacted the FCA about Arrow claiming not to be the creditor, I think I started a separate thread at the time but if anyone has thoughts on that, please feel free to share.

All the best and with thanks,

Matt

Hi

Firstly, i think a complaint to the FCA is necessary, unless people raise these issues the FCA will be plodding on oblivious, and without complaints the FCA cannot take any action against these companies.

Second, this claim has been stayed since "2011"?? For over 7 years? Are you serious? This is in my opinion an utter abuse of process. There is clear case law that states a party who issues proceedings with the intent of parking the claim commits an abuse of the court process. There is also the equitable doctrine of Laches which is in effect the equitable limitation act, and there is in my view a clear argument that not withstanding the issue with the abuse of process, 7 years on limitation would clearly have expired.

If that is the case, and its been stayed over 7 years then this would also need raising with the FCA too.

[Diana M]

Re: Letter from Solicitor requesting payment on behalf of a debt collector

*Update*

I ended up witholding any response. This is my own fault, it had worked thus far and I can live with that.

I received a County Court Claim form yesterday.

I still haven't sent CCA, as stated above, how do I respond? You're not wasting your time answering this, I WILL respond.

^ ^ ^ According to post # 4 on this thread you were served with a claim on May 4th last year (i.e. 2017).

You filed a Defence and the claim has been stayed since last July (i.e. almost 8 months).

Arrow has now produced some documents. At a guess they'll have provided those same documents to Restons who will now write direct to you typically suggesting you withdraw your defence etc.

Alternatively they may simply apply to lift the stay and continue with proceedings in which case you'll be sent a Directions Questionnaire by NCCBC (more later about that).

Or Restons may threaten to make an Application to lift the stay and go for a Summary Judgment to strike out your Defence as having no merit if you've only pleaded 'no documents'.

Wait to see what Restons say/do before you can decide your next step.

I would also check with MCOL in a week's time to see if any Application has been made by Restons on behalf of Arrow. They should send you a copy of any Application but it's always best to check for yourself especially if they've asked for a SJ Application to be decided without a Hearing.

I'll look back through you thread to see if you've posted up the Particulars of Claim since you have always believed this debt to be an amalgamation of a loan and an overdraft which may make life difficult for Arrow.

Just because Arrow has sent you documentation that doesn't mean they're home and dry with this claim!

Personally I would hold off any complaint about Arrow to the FCA since that could anger them and trigger a greater determination to fight this claim in court. You can always make a complaint after the proceedings have reached a conclusion if that's what you want to do.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Letter from Solicitor requesting payment on behalf of a debt collector

Hi Matt

. . . . Send a Subject Access Request to HSBC. You will need to include the fee of £10 for that one

here is a template provided by Mike on another thread

Did you send a Subject Access Request to HSBC as was suggested?

If so then you can cross check the documents which Arrow have produced with the information gleaned from your SAR to see if they are 'honest and accurate'.

Edit: I can see that you have received your HSBC SAR which will be useful

I did collect a box from HSBC containing signatures and details from as far back as the late 90s! I'm talking junior bank accounts.

Di

[mattjunior]

Hi

Sorry for the mistype, the case has been stayed since July 2017, (not 2011).

I did send a SAR to HSBC and it did arrive. They sent a heck of a lot more than Arrow have. Arrow only have account statements and haven't produced any signed agreements. The accounts all say they are closed.

They are claiming approx £6500, it's not itemised and how they've come to this amount is not clear in terms of money owed, charges etc, none of these are listed anywhere.. I am working away, and don't have all the documents with me at the moment.

The last payment/acknowledgement from my self is somewhere around March 2013.

Matt

[Diana M]

I am working away, and don't have all the documents with me at the moment

Okay, let me know when you do have the documents and/or when you receive anything from the Claimant (is it Arrow Global Ltd or Arrow Global (Guernsey) Ltd?) or their solicitors Restons.

Di

[mattjunior]

Hi

Sorry for the mistype, the case has been stayed since July 2017, (not 2011).

I did send a SAR to HSBC and it did arrive. They sent a heck of a lot more than Arrow have. Arrow only have account statements and haven't produced any signed agreements. The accounts all say they are closed.

They are claiming approx £6500, it's not itemised and how they've come to this amount is not clear in terms of money owed, charges etc, none of these are listed anywhere.. I am working away, and don't have all the documents with me at the moment.

The last payment/acknowledgement from my self is somewhere around March 2013.

Matt

HI,

It's Arrow Global.

I am yet to receive any correspondence from anyone regarding the debt since Arrow sent those statements. I'll reiterate that there is no copy of an agreement or my signature with regards to the loan. The statements show that the accounts have been closed at some point but nothing that shows what I should have owed in the first place, or what has been paid in the meantime.

Who do I contact at the court please?

Matt

[Diana M]

I am yet to receive any correspondence from anyone regarding the debt since Arrow sent those statements. I'll reiterate that there is no copy of an agreement or my signature with regards to the loan. The statements show that the accounts have been closed at some point but nothing that shows what I should have owed in the first place, or what has been paid in the meantime.

Who do I contact at the court please?

I don’t think you do need to contact the court.

The claim is stayed so the ball is in Arrow’s court if they want to instruct Restons solicitors to make an Application to lift the stay and either continue with the proceedings (you’ll be sent a Directions Questionnair) or make an Application for a Summary Judgment to strike out your Defence as having no merit (which you can contest).

Until Restons write to you there’s no way of knowing which way they will jump. Or they may even just leave it stayed and then you can decide if you want to make a move.

Without seeing the documents (not redacted) I can’t say whether they have what they need to win their case, but from what you’ve described it sounds highly unlikely.

Hold your breath until you get the next letter.

Di