Arrow Global/Shoosmiths claim recieved

[Kati]

Re: Arrow Global/Shoosmiths claim recieved

@Kati

stevie has mentioned paying an upgrade to VIP which hasn't been 'tango'd'?
(Earlier on the thread)

[MENTION=6]Amethyst[/MENTION] will be the one to sort that :sorry: xx

[Diana M]

Re: Arrow Global/Shoosmiths claim recieved

Can you post up (type out) the Particulars of Claim please.

Can you clarify the address on the claim form for Arrow?

I can't read the exact name and address on your envelope in post # 7 so did it match the address on the claim form (I expect it did)?

Can you confirm the address on the letter Arrow just sent you confirming acknowledgement of your CCA Request?

Di

[stevie1961]

Re: Arrow Global/Shoosmiths claim recieved

Can you post up (type out) the Particulars of Claim please.

Can you clarify the address on the claim form for Arrow?

I can't read the exact name and address on your envelope in post # 7 so did it match the address on the claim form (I expect it did)?

Can you confirm the address on the letter Arrow just sent you confirming acknowledgement of your CCA Request?

Di

I've uploaded the POC and Arrow's address on the claim form.
All the letters were correctly addressed, The first one to Arrow global still today, doesn't show it as delivered but they returned a postal order dated 18th of October. The two that were refused, I have tracking information to prove they had been refused.
I'm thinking, The Email to their CEO may have done the trick

[MIKE770]

Re: Arrow Global/Shoosmiths claim recieved

personal account number showing


nice Tea stain on it lol

[stevie1961]

Re: Arrow Global/Shoosmiths claim recieved

personal account number showing


nice Tea stain on it lol

Tea or vodka and coke lol

[stevie1961]

Re: Arrow Global/Shoosmiths claim recieved

I have now received the CCA, T&C'S and default notice from both Arrow and Shoesmiths, along with a letter stating that they wish to file for a summary judgement against me.
It's taken a year for them to send me the documents and my defence was filed nearly a year ago. They are also asking me to fill in an income/expenditure form, to try and come to an arrangement to pay by 3-1-18


The signed agreement is illegable but they have also sent other unsigned copies of the agreement/ T&C's (3 pages) that are a little clearer.


Can they rely on this evidence, as it is illegable, or would it be better for me to make an offer of a partial setlement with them?


The reminants of the Meningitus I suffered a few years ago make it really difficult for me to concentrate/think clearly and I dont know how well I could do defending the case in court.
I've posted pictures of the CCA pages and the first page of the T&C's


Any help or advice would be gratefully received,

[nemesis45]

Re: Arrow Global/Shoosmiths claim recieved

I have now received the CCA, T&C'S and default notice from both Arrow and Shoesmiths, along with a letter stating that they wish to file for a summary judgement against me.
It's taken a year for them to send me the documents and my defence was filed nearly a year ago. They are also asking me to fill in an income/expenditure form, to try and come to an arrangement to pay by 3-1-18


The signed agreement is illegable but they have also sent other unsigned copies of the agreement/ T&C's (3 pages) that are a little clearer.


Can they rely on this evidence, as it is illegable, or would it be better for me to make an offer of a partial setlement with them?


The reminants of the Meningitus I suffered a few years ago make it really difficult for me to concentrate/think clearly and I dont know how well I could do defending the case in court.
I've posted pictures of the CCA pages and the first page of the T&C's


Any help or advice would be gratefully received,

I agree the legibility of the agreement is questionable, but the other documents seem to be an attempt to produce a reconstituted agreement which does not need to have signatures. Has it however the recon must have the following:

1. Your name and address as it was when the account was opened.

2. The creditors name and address as it was when the account was opened.

3, All the terms and conditions applicable when the accounts was opened.

4.All the terms and conditions applicable when the account was terminated.

5, Any other documents mentioned in the T's & C's.

6. A Current Statement of the account.

I see in the last attachment there is a note " see credit agreement for terms 1.2 &3 are these present in the documents received?

It's possible that a judge may conclude that on " the balance of probabilities " liability is proved" given that the signature and date a clear.



nem

[stevie1961]

Re: Arrow Global/Shoosmiths claim recieved

Thank you for the quick reply Nem, I do really appreciate the time you spend helping on this forum.

Terms 1.2 and 3 appear on the 2nd and 4th pictures but they are virtually unreadable.

This debt is pre 2007, have the rules now changed?

Shoesmiths state in their covering letter that they are unwilling to pay for me to ammend my defence. I have posted the redacted letter.

They have provided all the above documents that you have listed, so it seems it'll be best for me to come to an arrangement with them. Would it be better to come to an arrangement now or wait until mediation to try andget the amount reduced?
Cheers
Steve

[Diana M]

Re: Arrow Global/Shoosmiths claim recieved

They have provided all the above documents that you have listed, so it seems it'll be best for me to come to an arrangement with them. Would it be better to come to an arrangement now or wait until mediation to try andget the amount reduced?

It's only natural to feel defeatist when a solicitor produces documents but the fact that your signature and date is on that Application Form does NOT necessarily make it enforceable in court.

I recently won my case against PRA when the Judge found both of the MBNA credit agreements (Application Forms) disclosed by the Claimant "irredeemably unenforceable" even though I had signed and dated both of them.

See this >

PRA GROUP (UK) LIMITED v DIANA MAYHEW – WIN

‘“RECONSTITUTED AGREEMENT” – IRREDEEMABLY UNENFORCEABLE”
“UNREDACTED DEEDS OF ASSIGNMENT – NO ASSIGMENT PROVED”

So, held Recorder Bellamy in PRA Group (UK) Limited v Mayhew at Central London County Court on 22nd March 2017, at the end of a 3 day multi track trial, when dismissing PRA’s claim against our client.

Stale debts sued for on the back of 2 ‘reconstituted’ MBNA credit card agreements (May 1999 and October 2000) were held irredeemably unenforceable under CCA 1974. The evidence of an honest witness was preferred to that of so called “reconstituted agreements”.


After 3 days of close forensic examination of, and legal argument about, evidence and documents from both PRA and MBNA stating that our client’s specific debt had been assigned, the court held that no assignment had been proved.


Efforts, over many months, in earlier cases to force PRA into disclosure of un-redacted deeds and deep and sustained forensic challenge to the provenance of documents needed to prove regulatory compliance, finally drew back the veil. The reality behind bulk debt purchasing was revealed.


This decision shows that just saying an agreement is enforceable and producing a “reconstituted” copy does not prove that it is enforceable. Just saying an agreement has been assigned and producing a notice saying it has been assigned does not prove legal assignment.


Debt purchasers need to provide proof. If that means the pitifully few pence in the pound they pay for stale debts will increase because banks will now have to start keeping original evidence complying with regulatory consumer protection measures, it is hard to imagine many tears being shed, outside the City of London.

Read the thread to put my statement in context > http://legalbeagles.info/forums/show...l=1#post723304

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Arrow Global/Shoosmiths claim recieved

I have now received the CCA, T&C'S and default notice from both Arrow and Shoesmiths, along with a letter stating that they wish to file for a summary judgement against me.
It's taken a year for them to send me the documents and my defence was filed nearly a year ago.

You say that they have also produced a Default Notice. Is that compliant?

Because if it isn't (and I've seen many flawed MBNA reconstituted DNs) then they have a problem.

What about a Notice of Assignment? Did you ask for that in your CPR 31.14 Request and have you been sent anything valid in response?

Your Defence was filed a year ago and it's only now that they've sourced 'something' but whether that something is 'honest and accurate' is another matter altogether.

They've given you until 3rd January to respond to their letter. They say if you don't they will apply for a Summary Judgment so you have time to think this through and get advice and opinion from various members before you decide your next step.

You're a long way off being in court in front of a Judge.

First of all the Claimant has to make an Application to the court to lift the stay before any Application for a Summary Judgment can progress.

This means the claim will be transferred to your local county court who will be the decision-makers from that point onward (not NCCBC). This can take some weeks.

If a SJ Application is made then you can file a Witness Statement at that point.

You can always settle at any stage if both parties are willing. This can be settled in a Tomlin Order which is not a CCJ (so not on your credit file) albeit legally binding.

Ask more questions, wait for more answers and then see how you feel about things.

Di

[Diana M]

Re: Arrow Global/Shoosmiths claim recieved

Shoesmiths state in their covering letter that they are unwilling to pay for me to ammend my defence.

Shoosmiths' Point 10 in their covering letter is interesting. They are implying that your s 78 CCA Request is not 'deemed served'.

They appear to be relying on your Defence in which you apparently said (i.e. admitted) that it wasn't signed for and was returned. Perhaps this (incorrect service) is a legal argument that they would run in court if you tried to argue s.78.

However it seems you may have sent another CCA Request. Do you have the Royal Mail Trace and Trace receipt as evidence for that one? Your Defence (which I've not seen) pleads that the first CCA Request was sent (date given) and returned but perhaps makes no reference (by date) of the subsequent one?

I can also see that you were advised to make a complaint to the FCA about Arrow not signing for the CCA Request notwithstanding the fact that you arguably appear to have sent it to the wrong address.

Making a formal complaint to the FCA about a firm whilst legal proceedings are in progress (and they are the Claimant) is not a good idea in my view. Since this was about a year ago I expect the FCA may have approached Arrow about your complaint by now. Sometimes confrontational actions (complaints) can single you out for attention.

Point 17 refers to an email from you to Tom Drury CEO of Arrow (until December 2016) although I can't see any reference to that email on your thread but I've only glanced back so my apologies if I've missed something. It looks as if you may have sent a CCA Request to him or was it something else?

I can't see anything in Shoosmiths' letter about the firm being unwilling to pay for you to file an Amended Defence.

Di

[stevie1961]

Re: Arrow Global/Shoosmiths claim recieved

Hi Diana, thanks for the great info.
I've read through your thread, that was one hell of a process to go through, well done for winning it, it must have been hell for you!
Just goes to show checking every little part of a document can oust some of these sharks!

The default notice and notice of assignment are from Idem servicing, not MBNA the original creditor, Is this correct?
Also. my name and address do not appear on the default notice. although it would be easy for them to come up with a new one.

I've uploaded them for your perusal

Thanks for your valuable attention once more
Steve

[stevie1961]

Re: Arrow Global/Shoosmiths claim recieved

Sorry, our posts crossed.

Point 17 refers to an email from you to Tom Drury CEO of Arrow (until December 2016) although I can't see any reference to that email on your thread but I've only glanced back so my apologies if I've missed something. It looks as if you may have sent a CCA Request to him or was it something else?

That was the only way I could my s78 request accepted.
I have all the receipts from my s78 requests. shoesmiths claim I sent them to the wrong address, but that was the address on the claim form.

I can also see that you were advised to make a complaint to the FCA about Arrow not signing for the CCA Request notwithstanding the fact that you arguably appear to have sent it to the wrong address.

It was sent to the address on the claim form.

Here is my defence
[QUOTEIN THE NORTHAMTON COUNTY COURT (CCBC)
Claimant
Arrow global ltd.
20-22 Bedford row
London
WC1R 4JS

Defendant

M
8
C
P
S
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


DEFENCE


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1: I received the claim xxxxxx from the Northampton County Court on 14/10/2016

2: Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

3: This claim appears to be for a Credit Card agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

4: The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.

5. The particulars of claim fail to state when the agreement was entered into.

6. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from MBNA Europe Bank Limited to Arrow Global Limited on 30/11/2015 The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

7. It is denied that MBNA Europe Bank Limited served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.

8: On the 18/10/2016 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the Claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Shoosmiths LLP. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Agreement, Default Notice and Notice of Assignment.

9. Shoosmiths LLP has not sent any of these documents to me.



10. On the 18/10/2016 I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to Arrow Global Limited, pursuant to section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee. Sent by Royal mail signed for

11. On the 21/10/2016 I again, due to tracking not showing delivered, sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to Arrow Global Limited, pursuant to section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee. Sent by Royal mail signed for

12. On the 24/10/2016 Arrow Global Limited refused to accept delivery of the formal request for a copy of the original agreement, that was sent by signed for mail on the 21/10/16

13. On the 27/10/2016 I again, due to Arrow Global Limited refusing to accept the delivery, sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to Arrow Global Limited, along with the statutory £1 fee. Sent by Royal mail special delivery.

14. Arrow Global Limited refused to accept the delivery again on 28/10/16.

15. On the 29/10/16, I sent copies of the 3 CCA requests to Shoosmiths LLP, The Claimants solicitors, requesting that they forward my formal requests for a copy of the original agreement to Arrow Global Limited along with the statutory £1 fee.

16. On the 29/10/2016 I sent Mr Tom drury, CEO of Arrow Global Limited, an email requesting a copy of the original agreement, pursuant to section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I attached copies of the original requests that had been refused delivery by his staff at Arrow Global Limited.

17. I received a read receipt for the Email to Mr Tom Drury (CEO) on 30/10/16.

18. On the 02/11/16 I received a reply from Arrow Global Limited confirming receipt of my CCA request and a returned Postal order for £1, I have not received any documents in relation to my CCA request.

19. The Claimant has failed to comply with s 78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of s 78 (6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.

20. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) where the claim includes a money claim, a Defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

21. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.

22. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

23. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.


Statement of Truth

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.][/QUOTE]

[Diana M]

Re: Arrow Global/Shoosmiths claim recieved

The default notice and notice of assignment are from Idem servicing, not MBNA the original creditor, Is this correct?
Also. my name and address do not appear on the default notice. although it would be easy for them to come up with a new one.

If it is correct (MBNA assigned the debt to Idem Capital Securities Ltd who then sold it to Arrow) then they will have to prove the chain of assignment which was PRA's headache in PRA v Diana Mayhew.

I also notice that the NOA refers to the account originally being an Alliance and Leicester affinity card. What do you know /remember about how you opened the credit card account?

The DN you've uploaded does not have your name and address on it as you say. If Idem sent you a DN does this mean that the account wasn't defaulted by MBNA before is was assigned to Idem?

There are a lot of issues for you to consider before deciding the next best option for you.

Has anyone suggested that you send a Subject Access Request to MBNA to get the full history of the account? That way you'll be able to see whether any reconstituted documents are 'honest and accurate'. The Transaction Log should help you with that

Di

[stevie1961]

Re: Arrow Global/Shoosmiths claim recieved

My recollections of this time are very sketchy to say the least. in 2012 I suffered bacterial meningitis that hospitalised me for many weeks and left me with memory loss and poor memory from there on. At that time, my now separated wife was taking care of the finances, or so I thought!.
I think i had an alliance and Leicester credit card that was run by MBNA.
I had previous to that episode, set up a payment plan of £35 being paid direct to MBNA, last payment was on 02/08/12 according to statements sent to me by Arrow global.
The only default notice I have is the one above from Idem dated 04-02-13
My credit reports show that I have a default with Arrow global which started in 2016.

I'll take your sound advice and fire off a SAR to MBNA this weekend.
Thank you once again.