Lowel and CCJ - Too late to do anything

[steph137]

This is my brother's case but he works away so like an idiot I am dealing with it (really, it's not "one of them" stories :P) - People over at Money Saving Expert recommended these forums to me.

A brief history:

- My brother worked in Germany in 2006/2007 and had a contract with Orange mobile.
- He got a bill for £200+ because of a tariff mix up and disputed it but it was not resolved.
- He never paid anything from 2007 onwards for it and the contract was soon cancelled.
- His credit file shows a default with Lowell in 2010 (Orange no longer appear on there, which I think makes sense as you can only have 1 default for one piece of debt?)
- He got a court letter and returned it with a "statue barred" defence, as it was from 2007, he doesn't admit to the debt and he paid nothing to it since then
- Neither Lowell or Orange will provide a copy of the original bill or the contract, but it hasn't been formally requested in writing for either of them to do this
- Neither party (my brother or Lowell etc) can conclusively say the bill is or isn't from 2007 as there's no paper work for it to be found.
- He was then issued with a letter on August 13th from Bryan Carter solicitors (Image of the letter), but unfortunately this wasn't opened until yesterday - I had a quick look around these forums and got the impression this was a last attempt at getting him to pay as they have a weak case - surely they'd just go straight to the court as a guaranteed win if they had a strong case, but I am unsure now.
- Today he received a letter with an N180 form to return to the court (Image of this letter). I'm not sure why point 2 is crossed out on the letter as the defence was filed with the original curt document - it was actually done online and it's still showing on there.

What shall I do for him? I've tried to find the answer but there's just so many claims with vulture companies like Lowell that it's a minefield! I actually don't even know what to fill in on most of the N180 form (I only have rubbish photos at the moment but I'm going to see them properly tomorrow).

I have the added stumbling block that he is not going to be able to go into a CAB (etc) and I'm not sure if he'll even be able to sign the N180 in time.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[nemesis45]

Re: Lowel and CCJ - Too late to do anything

OK the NI80 must be completed and 1 copy sent to the court and 1 to Carter keeping one for yourself.

Yes agree to small claims track.
Yes agree to mediation it is expected that the parties to a claim will attempt resolution without recourse to a hearing.

The crossed out section refers to the claimant ( it's an all purpose form).

Lowell/carter will have to disclose all/any documents they intend to rely on at least 14 days before a hearing.

Get the N 180 in the post Monday you can sign the form as Steph xxxxxx " Litigation Friend" but he will have to attend the hearing
or rely on written submissions ( not advisable given the weakness of both claim and defence)

nem

[steph137]

Re: Lowel and CCJ - Too late to do anything

Thanks for the quick reply.

I think I'm going to have time to send the form to him for him to fill it in as he is going to be around from 24th to 26th, so he can sign it himself and post it back off to them - deadline is the 7th

If they don't have any documents proving the debt will that be the end of it, and even if they do as they date back to 2007 will any further action be taken?

Also, do you think this is just an attempt to scare him? He ignored all the debt letters until the court one, so I assume they thought he's just ignore that and they'd get an easy CCJ?

[Kafka]

Re: Lowel and CCJ - Too late to do anything

Can we be clear here?
When was the last payment made, or the last acknowledgement of the debt in writing?

[steph137]

Re: Lowel and CCJ - Too late to do anything

Can we be clear here?
When was the last payment made, or the last acknowledgement of the debt in writing?

The last payment was made in 2007 - I don't know the exact date, but around June/July. In fact, there was no payment for this bill as it was in dispute and it was the last bill on the contract, which was terminated by Orange because of non-payment.

He has never admitted to owing the debt and constantly disputed it. The actual issue is that his tariff never covered him in Germany but when he called their Customer Services they told him it did so he didn't make any changes to add anything onto his tariff to cover him properly there.

An issue we have is that he can't get any information on the exact dates as Orange say they no longer hold that information, Lowell just go around in circles asking to pay or he'll get a CCJ (as you'd expect). I wish I was sensible enough to ask on here before filing the defence etc as I can see it helps to send other letters to Lowell which we haven't done.

[Kafka]

Re: Lowel and CCJ - Too late to do anything

Have you filed a defence - this isn't clear and you didn't mention it before?

[steph137]

Re: Lowel and CCJ - Too late to do anything

Sorry, yes, the defence was filed last month.

It was a pretty simple defence - along the lines of it's from 2007, no payments have been made, he's never admitted to owing it and disputes it, and Orange or Lowel can't provide any version of the original bill.

I honestly thought that would be enough to shut them up, but evidently not.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowel and CCJ - Too late to do anything

The last payment was made in 2007 - I don't know the exact date, but around June/July. In fact, there was no payment for this bill as it was in dispute and it was the last bill on the contract, which was terminated by Orange because of non-payment.

He has never admitted to owing the debt and constantly disputed it. The actual issue is that his tariff never covered him in Germany but when he called their Customer Services they told him it did so he didn't make any changes to add anything onto his tariff to cover him properly there.

An issue we have is that he can't get any information on the exact dates as Orange say they no longer hold that information, Lowell just go around in circles asking to pay or he'll get a CCJ (as you'd expect). I wish I was sensible enough to ask on here before filing the defence etc as I can see it helps to send other letters to Lowell which we haven't done.

The burden of proof is on the claimant to show that the debt is not statute barred, which it would be if no payments have been made since 2007 and no written acknowledgments were made. :thumb:

Have you filed a defence - this isn't clear and you didn't mention it before?

There was a mention of an N180 which only gets sent after a defence is filed.

Sorry, yes, the defence was filed last month.

It was a pretty simple defence - along the lines of it's from 2007, no payments have been made, he's never admitted to owing it and disputes it, and Orange or Lowel can't provide any version of the original bill.

I honestly thought that would be enough to shut them up, but evidently not.

Looks like it was a statute barred defence given the wording above, however, the fact wasn't clearly stated. The courts are fully aware that most defendants with small claims are litigants in person and have no legal knowledge, so they will accept a defence even if it's not in the proper format.

[steph137]

Re: Lowel and CCJ - Too late to do anything

Thanks, that puts my mind at rest a little more.

[steph137]

Re: Lowel and CCJ - Too late to do anything

One final question, what do you put in the witnesses box? Just 1 if you are essentially representing yourself?

[nemesis45]

Re: Lowel and CCJ - Too late to do anything

One final question, what do you put in the witnesses box? Just 1 if you are essentially representing yourself?

You are not calling upon anyone else to give evidence so No Witnesses.

nem

[steph137]

Re: Lowel and CCJ - Too late to do anything

Super, cheers.

Thanks for all your help :-)

I'll be back to update if/when there's an outcome on this.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowel and CCJ - Too late to do anything

One final question, what do you put in the witnesses box? Just 1 if you are essentially representing yourself?

If you are referring to item D3 of the N180 directions questionnaire it should be ONE (yourself), the form clearly asks how many witnesses, including yourself will give evidence at the hearing. :thumb:

[steph137]

Re: Lowel and CCJ - Too late to do anything

Hi again.

Today he received a copy of Lowell's N180 form. It says 0 in the witness section. Does that mean they know it's not going to court or is that standard?

The letter attached was basic. It just said:

"We enclose a copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire.

The claimant is prepared to settle this matter outside of court and we look forward to hearing from you regarding negotiations.

Yours sincerely

Bryan Carter".

Again is this standard or does it sound like they have a weak case so it's a last attempt?

Thanks in advance.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowel and CCJ - Too late to do anything

Hi again.

Today he received a copy of Lowell's N180 form. It says 0 in the witness section. Does that mean they know it's not going to court or is that standard?

They often don't bother attending.

The letter attached was basic. It just said:

"We enclose a copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire.

The claimant is prepared to settle this matter outside of court and we look forward to hearing from you regarding negotiations.

Yours sincerely

Bryan Carter".

Again is this standard or does it sound like they have a weak case so it's a last attempt?

Thanks in advance.

Both!

Lowell never have any documents, they rely on being able to obtain them from the original creditor who will be in no hurry to dig them up when they no longer have an interest in the account. You said the debt was SBd, they'd have to show that it isn't in order to have a case, otherwise SB is an absolute defence so I'd say if your records are correct with regards to the activity on this account, then their case is weaker than than water! :grin:

Mr Carter always sends a letter saying they are prepare to settle, especially when they know they may have to discontinue the claim before it gets to a hearing ray: as the court will ask them to supple the documents they intend to rely on at least 14 days prior to the hearing. :thumb: