Lowell / BW Legal v User4327

[User4327]

I have received a court claim from BW Legal representing Lowell for an unpaid overdraft.

Date of Issue is 28/07/2015
Service Date is 02/08/2015

The claim is for approximately £1400 and relates to an overdraft with Lloyds TSB.

The overdraft/last contact I had with Lloyds dates back to 2008, at the time I was a student and had an authorised overdraft limit of £200, however Lloyds TSB reduced this to £0, effectively making me £200 overdrawn... and excessive charges etc followed.

I have acknowledged service and I have sent a CPR request to BW Legal.

I have NOT sent any CCA request because it is an overdraft.

Due to the dates I believe the debt is statute barred, furthermore any charges etc were excessive and beyond my control, this was a time of severe financial hardship and compounded by Lloyds TSB reducing my overdraft limit.

I would like to send a SAR request to Lloyds, however I'm not sure specifically what to ask for and between what dates etc, I have looked at the template but this is a general template for all types of SAR request. Also I have been told to be careful what to ask for because banks can sometimes charge per letter/info and will everything separately (by month or year for example) to increase the cost.

I would greatly appreciate any help/guidance.

Regards,

User4327

[nemesis45]

Re: Lowell / BW Legal v User4327

Hi welcome to LB.

Why do you think this debt is statute barred?
When did Lloyds first Demand Immediate Repayment of the OD in full? This is when the 6 year Limitation Clock
starts ticking.

A SAR will provide " Personal Data" relating to you and your dealings with the bank from inception to closure of the account.

It is rare for creditors to seek further fees unless the amount of data is extremely large.

nem

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell / BW Legal v User4327

I have received a court claim from BW Legal representing Lowell for an unpaid overdraft.

Date of Issue is 28/07/2015
Service Date is 02/08/2015

The claim is for approximately £1400 and relates to an overdraft with Lloyds TSB.

The overdraft/last contact I had with Lloyds dates back to 2008, at the time I was a student and had an authorised overdraft limit of £200, however Lloyds TSB reduced this to £0, effectively making me £200 overdrawn... and excessive charges etc followed.

Are there £1,200 worth of charges? :scared:

I would like to send a SAR request to Lloyds, however I'm not sure specifically what to ask for and between what dates etc, I have looked at the template but this is a general template for all types of SAR request. Also I have been told to be careful what to ask for because banks can sometimes charge per letter/info and will everything separately (by month or year for example) to increase the cost.

Below is a SAR letter I've used specifically to obtain financial data from banks. There is a statutory maximum fee of £10 when you send a SAR letter. Banks often charge to provide duplicate statements, etc. individually but when you send a request under the DPA 1998 they should provide all data held about you upon payment of the £10 fee. Having said that, Santander tried to be too clever as usual and sent me 6 months' worth of statements and told me if I wanted more, I should pay another £10. A complaint sorted them out and I ended up quids in with £50 paid into my current account in compensation. :clap2: :grin:

One thing about the SAR is that they have 40 days to respond so, unless you agree an extension with the solicitors, you probably won't get the data before your defence is due, however, the burden of proof is on the claimant. If you submit a SBd defence, the onus is on them to prove it isn't. Once you submit your defence they have 28 days to respond and say whether they wish to continue with the claim, if they do, it'll be some time before it goes to a hearing, so you should have time to receive and review the data. :thumb:

Dear Sirs

Ref: xxxxxxxx

Subject Access Request - S.7 Data Protection Act 1998

Under the Data Protection Act 1984 and 1998, and including the right of subject access under these acts, I hereby request that you supply me with any and all historical data in your possession which, in any way appertains to me, including (but not exhaustively) a copy of the original signed executed agreement; statements of account; duplicate statements and/or printouts of all account transactions; all internal and external correspondence sent or received by you including memos, logs, notes, screen prints and transcripts; notes of manual interventions such as telephone attendants' notes, copies of stored telephone conversations, internal and external emails; any other information held on all types of media in any relevant filing system. If you have disclosed any information to a third party (with or without my express permission), will you please include details of this in your reply, along with notes of any legal action passed or pending (to include a true copy of default notices, court orders and the like).

If you store any of the older records on microfiche, please be aware that the Information Commissioner deems this to be a relevant filing system under the Act. As such, any microfiche data must be sent to me in fully legible and comprehensible form.

Where any information that you provide includes any charges, for example returned payments, late payment fees, and so forth, would you please advise your breakdown of actual costs (liquidated damages) incurred for each charge, and the Term or Condition on which you rely upon to claim such a charge. I also require that you forward, within the above mentioned time scale, a true copy of the Terms and Conditions that were in force at the time my account was opened, and any subsequent amendments to those Terms and Conditions.

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my business with you. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10.00 to access ALL data held by you about myself. You have 40 days in which to comply with this request.

Yours faithfully,

[User4327]

Re: Lowell / BW Legal v User4327

Thank you for the speedy replies.

Nemesis - I do not know the date Lloyds issued the first demand, however, if i recall correctly, this happened during my first year at uni which was 7 years ago hence why I believe this is statute barred.

Flaming parrot - thank you for the SAR request template.

There is £150 court costs, the actual debt on the claim is for £1150, however the overdraft was only £200, hence £950 of this is extra charges and interest... However because I have not had any contact I do not know what proportion of these charges where applied by Lloyds TSB and what proportion by debt agencies etc.

Regards,

User4327

[nemesis45]

Re: Lowell / BW Legal v User4327

Thank you for the speedy replies.

Nemesis - I do not know the date Lloyds issued the first demand, however, if i recall correctly, this happened during my first year at uni which was 7 years ago hence why I believe this is statute barred.

Flaming parrot - thank you for the SAR request template.

There is £150 court costs, the actual debt on the claim is for £1150, however the overdraft was only £200, hence £950 of this is extra charges and interest... However because I have not had any contact I do not know what proportion of these charges where applied by Lloyds TSB and what proportion by debt agencies etc.

Regards,

User4327

On that info The Demand being issued 7 years ago and if no payments or written acknowledgments have been made in that 7 years the probability is the debt is statute barred.

DCA's & debt purchasers should not have added and charges to the debt at all.

nem

[User4327]

Re: Lowell / BW Legal v User4327

I received a letter today from BW legal saying they have referred my CPR request to the claimant Lowell and that they (Lowell) may have to contact the original creditor and they will provide the docs but this is 'contingent on receiving the documentation from the original creditor'.

I assume I should just wait and see if they respond with the documents? However I did state in the letter they should send the info within 7 days or agree an extension, should I just wait?

Also, just for clarification, as I said I have acknowledged the claim via MCOL, do I need to send the court copies of any letters or correspondence? Or notify them I've sent letters etc?

When and how should I submit a defence? What should this include?

Regards,

User4327

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell / BW Legal v User4327

I received a letter today from BW legal saying they have referred my CPR request to the claimant Lowell and that they (Lowell) may have to contact the original creditor and they will provide the docs but this is 'contingent on receiving the documentation from the original creditor'.

I assume I should just wait and see if they respond with the documents? However I did state in the letter they should send the info within 7 days or agree an extension, should I just wait?

BW Legal have to obtain the documents from their clients who in turn have to obtain them from the original creditor, so that's no likely to be any time soon, however, in theory they should have had the documents before issuing a claim.

You need to chase them up and say that you require the documents requested to prepare your defence, they should have been in their possession before issuing a claim yet they don't seem to have them, therefore you'd like them to agree to a 28 day extension as allowed under CPR 15.5. If they agree, you need to notify the court in writing (email's OK). :typing:

You can chase up by email and follow up with a phone call if necessary to save time. hone:

I received a letter today from BW legal saying they have referred my CPR request to the claimant Lowell and that they (Lowell) may have to contact the original Also, just for clarification, as I said I have acknowledged the claim via MCOL, do I need to send the court copies of any letters or correspondence? Or notify them I've sent letters etc?

Not at this stage, however, if they don't supply you with anything and you need to prepare a generic defence based on that fact, you'll need to include details of all your communications with them.

When and how should I submit a defence? What should this include?

You have a maximum of 33 days from the date printed on the claim, however, if they agree to an extension and you inform the court, that time is added on top of your existing deadline. If the issue date is 28th of July, your current deadline (without an extension) is the 30th of August: http://www.timeanddate.com/date/date...aw=&ad=33&rec=

As for content, it all depends on what you get if anything. An example generic defence can be found here but it will need amending quite a bit: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...t-Court-Claims

[nemesis45]

Re: Lowell / BW Legal v User4327

I received a letter today from BW legal saying they have referred my CPR request to the claimant Lowell and that they (Lowell) may have to contact the original creditor and they will provide the docs but this is 'contingent on receiving the documentation from the original creditor'.

I assume I should just wait and see if they respond with the documents? However I did state in the letter they should send the info within 7 days or agree an extension, should I just wait?

Also, just for clarification, as I said I have acknowledged the claim via MCOL, do I need to send the court copies of any letters or correspondence? Or notify them I've sent letters etc?

When and how should I submit a defence? What should this include?

Regards,

User4327

The time scale for CPR 31.14 is a nominal 7 days, you have been informed that the details have been requested. You can reply that the claimant should have the documents to hand prior to issuing the claim.

When you draft your defence you will need to have copies of all the relevant letters and index them to the points of your defence.

nem

[User4327]

Re: Lowell / BW Legal v User4327

Having asked for the extension in my original letter (as per the CPR template given on these forums) is the onus not on them to give an extension without me sending a second letter? ...i. e. Will it harm me if I submit a defence early on the grounds they do not have any documentation?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell / BW Legal v User4327

Having asked for the extension in my original letter (as per the CPR template given on these forums) is the onus not on them to give an extension without me sending a second letter? ..

An extension has to be agreed between the parties, there is no obligation on their side to agree to one as such, however, if you ask and they refuse, whilst still not supplying the paperwork, that fact can also be included in your defence.

.i. e. Will it harm me if I submit a defence early on the grounds they do not have any documentation?

In most cases, even when an extension is agreed, they are still unable to provide any documents simply because their clients haven't got them and the original creditor who sold them the account many moons ago doesn't have a reason to go out of their way to find them. If you are going to use the no documents argument in your defence, the more you show you've tried to get them to send them to you the better you look (and the worse they look) :thumb: Whilst you shouldn't leave it till the last second to submit your defence, if you submit it, say, two weeks before the deadline, there is a slim chance that they could come up with something before the deadline. It doesn't happen often but it did happen to someone on here who received documents when they were about to submit their generic defence. :mmph:

[User4327]

Re: Lowell / BW Legal v User4327

Thanks for the replies. :-)

Is there a letter template I could use to ask for an extension because they don't have the documents requested in the cpr request?

Regards,

User4327

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell / BW Legal v User4327

Thanks for the replies. :-)

Is there a letter template I could use to ask for an extension because they don't have the documents requested in the cpr request?

Regards,

User4327

There is: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...filing-defence :thumb:

[User4327]

Re: Lowell / BW Legal v User4327

What does the last line of that template mean...

'Considering the current deadline for submission is the xxxx xxxxxx 2014 I would appreciate a response by return.'

...I understand what it is getting at (i.e. respond asap so I can inform the court before the deadline), however it appears to end prematurely, is this gramtically/logically correct? Is this a legal term/phrase?

Regards,

User4327

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell / BW Legal v User4327

What does the last line of that template mean...

'Considering the current deadline for submission is the xxxx xxxxxx 2014 I would appreciate a response by return.'

...I understand what it is getting at (i.e. respond asap so I can inform the court before the deadline), however it appears to end prematurely, is this gramtically/logically correct? Is this a legal term/phrase?

No, it's not a legal term, it just means "as soon as you can", it's kind of an abbreviation of "by return of post".

You don't need to say that, you can just say as soon as possible.

As the posts on that thread say, asking for an extension can easily be done by email and/or phone to save time, it doesn't need to follow a set format, however, it is a good idea to remember to quote CPR 15.5 which is the bit of legislation that allows the parties to agree to an extension to file a defence.

You can request it by email and then follow up by phone if necessary. hone:

Agreement extending the period for filing a defence

15.5
(1) The defendant and the claimant may agree that the period for filing a defence specified in rule 15.4 shall be extended by up to 28 days.
(2) Where the defendant and the claimant agree to extend the period for filing a defence, the defendant must notify the court in writing.

[User4327]

Re: Lowell / BW Legal v User4327

Following a request for an extension, I have received a response from BW Legal as a result I have a couple of questions as follows...

They have agreed to an extension of 28 days, however in the next sentence they appear to have put the wrong date on which my defence is due, an excert is shown below;

"We can confirm that our client have no objections to extending the time for filing of your defence for 28 days. Your defence is therefore due 1 September 2015."

The issue date is the 28th July hence these dates do not tie up, is it worth getting clarification before writing to the court re the extension?

Secondly, in the letter they state "the outstanding balance relates to an overdraft facility [with] Lloyds bank plc" and that the last payment was in February 2010 for an amount of £540. - I do not recall making this payment, however this was a bank account so there may have been a payment from another source that I am either not aware of, or have forgot about. I have checked my other accounts and cannot see any payments of this amount around that time. I will send the SAR request recorded delivery on Monday.

Does this mean the debt is not Statute barred and if so, where does it leave me in terms of defending the claim?
Also please note, whilst they have stated this in the letter they have not provided any evidence of this payment, can I force them to tell me where they've got this information from?

Regards,

User4327