Court claim for overdraft

[pawlik]

Re: Court claim for overdraft

Personally I'd wait until you hear from the court. Once they receive your defence, they have 28 days to respond and say whether they wish to continue with the claim. If they don't respond, the claim gets stayed but you won't be informed. If they decide to proceed you will get a directions questionnaire where there is an option to tick a box to agree to mediation. If you wish to settle, that should give you an opportunity. :thumb:

If all else fails, you could settle via a Tomlin order which stays proceedings as long as you keep making the agreed repayments, it's a last resort way to avoid a CCJ. If you are able to get a F&F accepted and are able to pay it out of your redundancy, even better. :grin:

I received a letter from court that my defence has been received. Just to advise that I wrote a f&f letter using without prejudice offering 10% of total balance using recorded delivery. Hopefully this will demonstrate that I have been trying to solve amicably? I will await the response from restons. Checked on my credit file and cabots have been snooping around.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court claim for overdraft

I am afraid to say I did not resend letter with signature. I have submitted my defence today. I am now thinking of offering a settlement figure as I have been given notice for redundancy. With mouths to feed this is a very stressful time. Is this a wise move or shall I wait for court directions?

Personally I'd wait until you hear from the court. Once they receive your defence, they have 28 days to respond and say whether they wish to continue with the claim. If they don't respond, the claim gets stayed but you won't be informed. If they decide to proceed you will get a directions questionnaire where there is an option to tick a box to agree to mediation. If you wish to settle, that should give you an opportunity. :thumb:

If all else fails, you could settle via a Tomlin order which stays proceedings as long as you keep making the agreed repayments, it's a last resort way to avoid a CCJ. If you are able to get a F&F accepted and are able to pay it out of your redundancy, even better. :grin:

[pawlik]

Re: Court claim for overdraft

Did they reply to you arguing about the lack of signature? Or did they just fail to respond to your letter and went on to issue a claim?

It may not make a huge difference to the account itself but exchanging correspondence at the pre-claim stage is part of the pre-action conduct and both parties are expected to comply. If they argued about the lack of signature and you didn't re-send a signed letter asking for the same documents, then it's probably best leaving the whole thing out, however, if they never said anything about the lack of signature and just ignored your response and issued a claim, or if you satisfied their demand for a signature and re-sent the letter, I'd be inclined to mention that as it shows disregard for the rules. :thumb:

I am afraid to say I did not resend letter with signature. I have submitted my defence today. I am now thinking of offering a settlement figure as I have been given notice for redundancy. With mouths to feed this is a very stressful time. Is this a wise move or shall I wait for court directions?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court claim for overdraft

Quick question I remembered that I did send the pre action letter using recorded delivery but Restons did not provide the information in this letter as it was not signed. Is it worth putting this in the defence?

Did they reply to you arguing about the lack of signature? Or did they just fail to respond to your letter and went on to issue a claim?

It may not make a huge difference to the account itself but exchanging correspondence at the pre-claim stage is part of the pre-action conduct and both parties are expected to comply. If they argued about the lack of signature and you didn't re-send a signed letter asking for the same documents, then it's probably best leaving the whole thing out, however, if they never said anything about the lack of signature and just ignored your response and issued a claim, or if you satisfied their demand for a signature and re-sent the letter, I'd be inclined to mention that as it shows disregard for the rules. :thumb:

[nemesis45]

Re: Court claim for overdraft

[QUOTE=pawlik;567988][QUOTE=nemesis45;567566]

Quick question I remembered that I did send the pre action letter using recorded delivery but Restons did not provide the information in this letter as it was not signed. Is it worth putting this in the defence?

Good morning,

An " unsigned " letter that was ignored/ declined to answer by the recipient is unlikely to be of help in your defence.

nem

[pawlik]

Re: Court claim for overdraft

[QUOTE=nemesis45;567566][QUOTE=pawlik;567560]

You are saying that you didn't receive a termination notice but then ask for a copy of the DN. Being an overdraft, there isn't the same requirement for a DN as with other regulated credit such as loans.

- - - Updated - - -


For the purpose of limitation, the clock stopped when a claim was issued. If you had the account, you can't deny having it, however, you can make a few other points.




Is this better?

1. It is denied that a Final demand Notice or Termination notice was received from HSBC.


you don't really need to prompt them more in to finding the DN TN.

nem

Quick question I remembered that I did send the pre action letter using recorded delivery but Restons did not provide the information in this letter as it was not signed. Is it worth putting this in the defence?

[nemesis45]

Re: Court claim for overdraft

[QUOTE=pawlik;567560][QUOTE=FlamingParrot;567421]You are saying that you didn't receive a termination notice but then ask for a copy of the DN. Being an overdraft, there isn't the same requirement for a DN as with other regulated credit such as loans.

- - - Updated - - -


For the purpose of limitation, the clock stopped when a claim was issued. If you had the account, you can't deny having it, however, you can make a few other points.




Is this better?

1. It is denied that a Final demand Notice or Termination notice was received from HSBC.


you don't really need to prompt them more in to finding the DN TN.

nem

[pawlik]

Re: Court claim for overdraft

[QUOTE=FlamingParrot;567421]You are saying that you didn't receive a termination notice but then ask for a copy of the DN. Being an overdraft, there isn't the same requirement for a DN as with other regulated credit such as loans.

- - - Updated - - -


For the purpose of limitation, the clock stopped when a claim was issued. If you had the account, you can't deny having it, however, you can make a few other points.

Restons are acting for Cabot and it's customary to contact the solicitors for anything relating to the claim so that's fine. :thumb:

Is this better?

1. It is denied that a Final demand Notice or Termination notice was received from HSBC prior to account closure. The claimant should provide a copy of the Final demand Notice and Termination notice as the original creditor has been unable to supply a copy.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Court claim for overdraft

16. It is denied that Termination notice was received from HSBC. The claimant should provide a copy of the Default Notice as the original creditor has been unable to supply a copy.

You are saying that you didn't receive a termination notice but then ask for a copy of the DN. Being an overdraft, there isn't the same requirement for a DN as with other regulated credit such as loans.

- - - Updated - - -

I thought by admitting I had current account with od I was admitting liability debt :noidea:

For the purpose of limitation, the clock stopped when a claim was issued. If you had the account, you can't deny having it, however, you can make a few other points.

15. I have asked the Claimant if we may agree to extend the time period allowed for filing of my defence pending receipt of documents (as allowed under CPR 15.5) using recorded delivery, but they have declined to respond to this request. I asked Restons not Cabot do I need to change this?

[QUOTE=pawlik;567391]
Restons are acting for Cabot and it's customary to contact the solicitors for anything relating to the claim so that's fine. :thumb:

[pawlik]

Re: Court claim for overdraft

Thanks for your help nem. I really would have struggled with this whole process without the help of Leagle Beagles

I thought by admitting I had current account with od I was admitting liability debt :noidea:

15. I have asked the Claimant if we may agree to extend the time period allowed for filing of my defence pending receipt of documents (as allowed under CPR 15.5) using recorded delivery, but they have declined to respond to this request. I asked Restons not Cabot do I need to change this?

[nemesis45]

Re: Court claim for overdraft

Hi Nem the charges come to around £900. Is my amended defence ok?


CASE SUMMARY- Defence

1. I am the Defendant in this case and Litigant in Person.

2. On 20/07/2015 the Claimant submitted a claim to Northampton County Court stating their particulars of claim Remove.

3. The claim was acknowledged on 24/07/2015 using the MCOL website.

4. Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

5. This claim is for a debt resulting from a Current Account agreement with HSBC Bank Plc

6. The Defendant also contends that terms of the agreement between him/her and HSBC Bank Plc were unfair pursuant to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

7. It is admitted that the Defendant held a Current Account with HSBC Bank from 2004

8. The Current Account had an overdraft limit of XXXX

9. The Defendant suffered from a period of financial hardship from December 2010 until April 2013 due to redundancy. A debt charity contacted HSBC on behalf of the defendant to freeze interest and charges and accept lower payments during this time. This correspondence was ignored by HSBC. As a result interest and bank charges accrued and sent the account over the agreed Overdraft Limit. HSBC Bank had applied over £XXX in bank charges and interest to the Defendants account during this time before closing the account.

10. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from HSBC to Marlin on XXXXX 2014. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

11. In order to obtain more information the defendant made a Subject Access request from HSBC. The original creditor were unable to provide copies of the contract/agreement referred to by the Claimant in the POC. Shall I put this here?Remove

11. On 27/7/2015 I sent a request for further information mentioned in the claimants Particular of claims under Civil Procedure Rule 18 to Restons. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Contract/Agreement, Deed of Assignment, Notice of Assignment, Default warning letter and Default Notice using recorded delivery.


12. Restons has not provided the documents requested in the CPR 18 letter


13. On 03/08/2015 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Restons using recorded delivery.

14. Restons has not sent any of the documents requested in CPR 31.14 letter

15. I have asked the Claimant if we may agree to extend the time period allowed for filing of my defence pending receipt of documents (as allowed under CPR 15.5) using recorded delivery, but they have declined to respond to this request.

16. It is denied that Termination notice was received from HSBC. The claimant should provide a copy of the Default Notice as the original creditor has been unable to supply a copy.

17. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed. ***** Should this still be here as I admit the debt??*****

18. At this stage without documentation I am unable to plead fully to the claim. I request the court orders the Claimants, to provide the necessary documentation in order to fully plead my case, else the claim should be struck out.


19. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants the Defendant will then be in a position to amend her defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.




Statement of Truth

Dated

Signed

Take the SAR paragraph out it's not relevant and can't affect claim or defence. (para 11)
Take out " deed of assignment" this would most likely be denied as " confidential & commercially sensitive data" )
The para 17 comment re " admitting the debt" if you are admitting liability why are we working on a defence?
The header to the defence should be along the lines of:

Claim No,xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Between

Claimants name

and

your name Defendant.

I am the defendant in this claim and Litigator in Person

1. On date............... I received claim No,................................ issued via the Northampton County Court Business Centre.

go on from there renumbering where items have been removed.

nem

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Nem the charges come to around £900. Is my amended defence ok?


CASE SUMMARY- Defence

1. I am the Defendant in this case and Litigant in Person.

2. On 20/07/2015 the Claimant submitted a claim to Northampton County Court stating their particulars of claim Remove.

3. The claim was acknowledged on 24/07/2015 using the MCOL website.

4. Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

5. This claim is for a debt resulting from a Current Account agreement with HSBC Bank Plc

6. The Defendant also contends that terms of the agreement between him/her and HSBC Bank Plc were unfair pursuant to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

7. It is admitted that the Defendant held a Current Account with HSBC Bank from 2004

8. The Current Account had an overdraft limit of XXXX

9. The Defendant suffered from a period of financial hardship from December 2010 until April 2013 due to redundancy. A debt charity contacted HSBC on behalf of the defendant to freeze interest and charges and accept lower payments during this time. This correspondence was ignored by HSBC. As a result interest and bank charges accrued and sent the account over the agreed Overdraft Limit. HSBC Bank had applied over £XXX in bank charges and interest to the Defendants account during this time before closing the account.

10. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from HSBC to Marlin on XXXXX 2014. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

11. In order to obtain more information the defendant made a Subject Access request from HSBC. The original creditor were unable to provide copies of the contract/agreement referred to by the Claimant in the POC. Shall I put this here?Remove

11. On 27/7/2015 I sent a request for further information mentioned in the claimants Particular of claims under Civil Procedure Rule 18 to Restons. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Contract/Agreement, Deed of Assignment, Notice of Assignment, Default warning letter and Default Notice using recorded delivery.


12. Restons has not provided the documents requested in the CPR 18 letter


13. On 03/08/2015 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Restons using recorded delivery.

14. Restons has not sent any of the documents requested in CPR 31.14 letter

15. I have asked the Claimant if we may agree to extend the time period allowed for filing of my defence pending receipt of documents (as allowed under CPR 15.5) using recorded delivery, but they have declined to respond to this request.

16. It is denied that Termination notice was received from HSBC. The claimant should provide a copy of the Default Notice as the original creditor has been unable to supply a copy.

17. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed. ***** Should this still be here as I admit the debt??*****

18. At this stage without documentation I am unable to plead fully to the claim. I request the court orders the Claimants, to provide the necessary documentation in order to fully plead my case, else the claim should be struck out.


19. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants the Defendant will then be in a position to amend her defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.




Statement of Truth

Dated

Signed

Take the SAR paragraph out it's not relevant and can't affect claim or defence. (para 11)
Take out " deed of assignment" this would most likely be denied as " confidential & commercially sensitive data" )
The para 17 comment re " admitting the debt" if you are admitting liability why are we working on a defence?
The header to the defence should be along the lines of:

Claim No,xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Between

Claimants name

and

your name Defendant.

I am the defendant in this claim and Litigator in Person

1. On date............... I received claim No,................................ issued via the Northampton County Court Business Centre.

go on from there renumbering where items have been removed.

nem

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Nem the charges come to around £900. Is my amended defence ok?


CASE SUMMARY- Defence

1. I am the Defendant in this case and Litigant in Person.

2. On 20/07/2015 the Claimant submitted a claim to Northampton County Court stating their particulars of claim Remove.

3. The claim was acknowledged on 24/07/2015 using the MCOL website.

4. Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

5. This claim is for a debt resulting from a Current Account agreement with HSBC Bank Plc

6. The Defendant also contends that terms of the agreement between him/her and HSBC Bank Plc were unfair pursuant to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

7. It is admitted that the Defendant held a Current Account with HSBC Bank from 2004

8. The Current Account had an overdraft limit of XXXX

9. The Defendant suffered from a period of financial hardship from December 2010 until April 2013 due to redundancy. A debt charity contacted HSBC on behalf of the defendant to freeze interest and charges and accept lower payments during this time. This correspondence was ignored by HSBC. As a result interest and bank charges accrued and sent the account over the agreed Overdraft Limit. HSBC Bank had applied over £XXX in bank charges and interest to the Defendants account during this time before closing the account.

10. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from HSBC to Marlin on XXXXX 2014. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

11. In order to obtain more information the defendant made a Subject Access request from HSBC. The original creditor were unable to provide copies of the contract/agreement referred to by the Claimant in the POC. Shall I put this here?Remove

11. On 27/7/2015 I sent a request for further information mentioned in the claimants Particular of claims under Civil Procedure Rule 18 to Restons. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Contract/Agreement, Deed of Assignment, Notice of Assignment, Default warning letter and Default Notice using recorded delivery.


12. Restons has not provided the documents requested in the CPR 18 letter


13. On 03/08/2015 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Restons using recorded delivery.

14. Restons has not sent any of the documents requested in CPR 31.14 letter

15. I have asked the Claimant if we may agree to extend the time period allowed for filing of my defence pending receipt of documents (as allowed under CPR 15.5) using recorded delivery, but they have declined to respond to this request.

16. It is denied that Termination notice was received from HSBC. The claimant should provide a copy of the Default Notice as the original creditor has been unable to supply a copy.

17. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed. ***** Should this still be here as I admit the debt??*****

18. At this stage without documentation I am unable to plead fully to the claim. I request the court orders the Claimants, to provide the necessary documentation in order to fully plead my case, else the claim should be struck out.


19. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants the Defendant will then be in a position to amend her defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.




Statement of Truth

Dated

Signed

Take the SAR paragraph out it's not relevant and can't affect claim or defence. (para 11)
Take out " deed of assignment" this would most likely be denied as " confidential & commercially sensitive data" )
The para 17 comment re " admitting the debt" if you are admitting liability why are we working on a defence?
The header to the defence should be along the lines of:

Claim No,xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Between

Claimants name

and

your name Defendant.

I am the defendant in this claim and Litigator in Person

1. On date............... I received claim No,................................ issued via the Northampton County Court Business Centre.

go on from there renumbering where items have been removed.

nem

[pawlik]

Re: Court claim for overdraft

Good idea getting the charges refund in writing!
Do you know roughly how much the charges amount to?

Hi Nem the charges come to around £900. Is my amended defence ok?


CASE SUMMARY- Defence

1. I am the Defendant in this case and Litigant in Person.

2. On 20/07/2015 the Claimant submitted a claim to Northampton County Court stating their particulars of claim.

3. The claim was acknowledged on 24/07/2015 using the MCOL website.

4. Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

5. This claim is for a debt resulting from a Current Account agreement with HSBC Bank Plc

6. The Defendant also contends that terms of the agreement between him/her and HSBC Bank Plc were unfair pursuant to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

7. It is admitted that the Defendant held a Current Account with HSBC Bank from 2004

8. The Current Account had an overdraft limit of XXXX

9. The Defendant suffered from a period of financial hardship from December 2010 until April 2013 due to redundancy. A debt charity contacted HSBC on behalf of the defendant to freeze interest and charges and accept lower payments during this time. This correspondence was ignored by HSBC. As a result interest and bank charges accrued and sent the account over the agreed Overdraft Limit. HSBC Bank had applied over £XXX in bank charges and interest to the Defendants account during this time before closing the account.

10. The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from HSBC to Marlin on XXXXX 2014. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

11. In order to obtain more information the defendant made a Subject Access request from HSBC. The original creditor were unable to provide copies of the contract/agreement referred to by the Claimant in the POC. Shall I put this here???

11. On 27/7/2015 I sent a request for further information mentioned in the claimants Particular of claims under Civil Procedure Rule 18 to Restons. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Contract/Agreement, Deed of Assignment, Notice of Assignment, Default warning letter and Default Notice using recorded delivery.


12. Restons has not provided the documents requested in the CPR 18 letter


13. On 03/08/2015 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Restons using recorded delivery.

14. Restons has not sent any of the documents requested in CPR 31.14 letter

15. I have asked the Claimant if we may agree to extend the time period allowed for filing of my defence pending receipt of documents (as allowed under CPR 15.5) using recorded delivery, but they have declined to respond to this request.

16. It is denied that Termination notice was received from HSBC. The claimant should provide a copy of the Default Notice as the original creditor has been unable to supply a copy.

17. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed. ***** Should this still be here as I admit the debt??*****

18. At this stage without documentation I am unable to plead fully to the claim. I request the court orders the Claimants, to provide the necessary documentation in order to fully plead my case, else the claim should be struck out.


19. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants the Defendant will then be in a position to amend her defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.




Statement of Truth

Dated

Signed

[nemesis45]

Re: Court claim for overdraft

What a day of developments the original creditor called me in regards to the charges complaint. They uphold my complaint and will refund the charges that were applied in my time of financial difficulty. I never accepted the offer of payment as I want it in writing first and will then decide what the next course of action to take.

Good idea getting the charges refund in writing!
Do you know roughly how much the charges amount to?

[pawlik]

Re: Court claim for overdraft

What a day of developments the original creditor called me in regards to the charges complaint. They uphold my complaint and will refund the charges that were applied in my time of financial difficulty. I never accepted the offer of payment as I want it in writing first and will then decide what the next course of action to take.

[pawlik]

Re: Court claim for overdraft

Hello, I have received a response to the CPR 31.14 request for the documents and extension request.

The only document referred to in the Particular of Claim is "contract" as this account relates to a HSBC bank current account, there is not a signed credit agreement.

You have been provided with a copy of the contractual Terms and Conditions at the time the account was opened. Please check through your own paperwork, we suggest that you seek your own independent legal advice regarding this matter.