CCJ from Mortimer Clarke on behalf of Cabot (OPUS Credit Card Debt sold to them)

[nemesis45]

Re: CCJ from Mortimer Clarke on behalf of Cabot (OPUS Credit Card Debt sold to them)

Hi all,

I am still waiting for a reply from both Mortimer Clarke re. CR31.14 and Cabot re. CCA.

They have both received documents on Friday 10th July - just wondering if anyone knows the sort of turnaround for them to reply.

12 + 2 Working Days for the CCA request.

7 days for CPR chase this but not the CCA.
Expect 40 days letter from Cabot on the CCA.
MC either " getting docs from client" or " not applicable as the claim
will likely be allocated to the small claims track.

nem

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CCJ from Mortimer Clarke on behalf of Cabot (OPUS Credit Card Debt sold to them)

Hi all,

I am still waiting for a reply from both Mortimer Clarke re. CR31.14 and Cabot re. CCA.

They have both received documents on Friday 10th July - just wondering if anyone knows the sort of turnaround for them to reply.

Going from experience on here, Cabot will send a letter saying it will take them 40 days to get your agreement in response to your CCA request. Mortimer Clarke don't usually manage to send the documents before the deadline for filing a defence but they often say they agree to a 28 day extension, sometimes without even requesting it.

[Pos1tive]

Re: CCJ from Mortimer Clarke on behalf of Cabot (OPUS Credit Card Debt sold to them)

Hi all,

I am still waiting for a reply from both Mortimer Clarke re. CR31.14 and Cabot re. CCA.

They have both received documents on Friday 10th July - just wondering if anyone knows the sort of turnaround for them to reply.

[pt2537]

Re: CCJ from Mortimer Clarke on behalf of Cabot (OPUS Credit Card Debt sold to them)

Hello @pt2537 - many thanks for your comments. Having sent the CCA and CPR Request, should I wait for these and then proceed forward regarding an "application to strike out"?

Its difficult to really advise you on the best course of action without having sight of the papers and the full details of the case.

[Pos1tive]

Re: CCJ from Mortimer Clarke on behalf of Cabot (OPUS Credit Card Debt sold to them)

It would entirely discredit their case, ive blogged recently about the cases ive dealt with involving these Opus credit agreements, they truly are shocking, but its important that you defend it correctly or shocking or not you can end up with a CCJ and trying to appeal can be a real expensive game.

Its better to kill it now with an application to strike out in my opinion than letting it fester,

Hello [MENTION=551]pt2537[/MENTION] - many thanks for your comments. Having sent the CCA and CPR Request, should I wait for these and then proceed forward regarding an "application to strike out"?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CCJ from Mortimer Clarke on behalf of Cabot (OPUS Credit Card Debt sold to them)

g

Ok, The important things are the CCA request & CPR31,14 requests,
I 'll PM you some thoughts as promised later today.

nem

Wouldn't it be better if they were posted up here instead? There are a lot of those cards out there which were Citi cards to start with, even I had one myself.

As PT says, he's dealt with a few of those cases, I asked him to look in on this thread for that very reason, so it would be good to post everything up on here. :typing:

It would entirely discredit their case, ive blogged recently about the cases ive dealt with involving these Opus credit agreements, they truly are shocking, but its important that you defend it correctly or shocking or not you can end up with a CCJ and trying to appeal can be a real expensive game.

Indeed, I posted up a couple of them above because they sounded rather similar to this one, you may have some more though. :thumb:

[pt2537]

Re: CCJ from Mortimer Clarke on behalf of Cabot (OPUS Credit Card Debt sold to them)

If they send you a recon agreement from opus it will be quite funny if you can prove ,say from bank statements, that it was with someone else.
also wouldn't you want to ask for the termination notice in the cpr as they mention it was terminated

It would entirely discredit their case, ive blogged recently about the cases ive dealt with involving these Opus credit agreements, they truly are shocking, but its important that you defend it correctly or shocking or not you can end up with a CCJ and trying to appeal can be a real expensive game.

Its better to kill it now with an application to strike out in my opinion than letting it fester,

[jon1965]

Re: CCJ from Mortimer Clarke on behalf of Cabot (OPUS Credit Card Debt sold to them)

If they send you a recon agreement from opus it will be quite funny if you can prove ,say from bank statements, that it was with someone else.
also wouldn't you want to ask for the termination notice in the cpr as they mention it was terminated

[nemesis45]

Re: CCJ from Mortimer Clarke on behalf of Cabot (OPUS Credit Card Debt sold to them)

That's my exact thoughts to dispute this @FlamingParrot.

@nemesis45 - looks like my father has defaulted since May 2011 - so just over 4 years now. Great!

g

Ok, The important things are the CCA request & CPR31,14 requests,
I 'll PM you some thoughts as promised later today.

nem

[pt2537]

Re: CCJ from Mortimer Clarke on behalf of Cabot (OPUS Credit Card Debt sold to them)

This is what I'm talking about - great find and share @FlamingParrot. I guess I should go down the process yourself and Nem have advised:

1. I will request a CCA from Cabot.

2. A request made under CPR31.14 to the solicitors

I will acknowledge The service of the Claim.

be sure to ask for the true copy of the executed agreement between yourself and opus, as this is quite an important point.

Also make sure under rule 31.14 you ask for a copy of the agreement mentioned in the particulars of claim, vitally important.

They cannot say it was an agreement with X and produce an agreement with Y.

Ive hammered many of these opus cases as they get it so plainly wrong.

[Pos1tive]

Re: CCJ from Mortimer Clarke on behalf of Cabot (OPUS Credit Card Debt sold to them)

This is what I'm talking about - great find and share [MENTION=37786]FlamingParrot[/MENTION]. I guess I should go down the process yourself and Nem have advised:

1. I will request a CCA from Cabot.

2. A request made under CPR31.14 to the solicitors

I will acknowledge The service of the Claim.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CCJ from Mortimer Clarke on behalf of Cabot (OPUS Credit Card Debt sold to them)

And this one:

If youve never had an Opus card, and the particulars of claim are incapable of proof then the claim is doomed from the start, id be tempted to put the Claimant to proof and require production of the signed agreement in my pleading along with a clear denial over ever entering into an Opus agreement

- - - Updated - - -

...and there's more:

Another day passes and another notice of discontinuance arrives. This most recent notice was as a result to a strike out application which was made after it became clear that not only did the Claimant not have any idea who the original creditor was, their pleaded case was soo incoherent and so poorly pleaded that […]
Another day passes and another notice of discontinuance arrives. This most recent notice was as a result to a strike out application which was made after it became clear that not only did the Claimant not have any idea who the original creditor was, their pleaded case was soo incoherent and so poorly pleaded that it was simply in-capable of ever being proven in Court.
The case was pleaded that the client entered into an “Opus” account in 1998, first mistake, Opus werent issuing these cards back then. Secondly, whatever this card was, it is clear that the pleaded case made no mention of the chain of assignment that took it from the original creditor through to the current claimant.
Now you would have thought with a firm like Restons on the other side they would have realised, but you would have thought wrong!!!!!!!
Anyway, a request for discovery was made per CPR 31, it was met with the most bonkers reply i have ever seen, basically it said the client must have had the documents when the account was opened so they should check their records????? WTF How is this possible i asked myself, it was a simple case of how can you have something which never existed in the first place????? anyway, they wouldnt disclose so after looking at the whole picture, we decided that this sick puppy should be put down with a swift application under CPR 3. In fact the case was soo shockingly bad, i managed to get in each limb of CPR 3.4(2) in my application!!!
Anyway, they have now abandoned the case, but i cant help thinking there will be more of this type of case out there begging for the same treatment…………….



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[Pos1tive]

Re: CCJ from Mortimer Clarke on behalf of Cabot (OPUS Credit Card Debt sold to them)

That's my exact thoughts to dispute this @FlamingParrot.

@nemesis45 - looks like my father has defaulted since May 2011 - so just over 4 years now. Great!

[FlamingParrot]

Re: CCJ from Mortimer Clarke on behalf of Cabot (OPUS Credit Card Debt sold to them)

Got it!

Ive been fighting Cabot in their various guises for a number of years, right back when they were represented by Hodsons, Morgan Solicitors etc. I note they are now farming out their work to more mainstream firms such as Mortimer Clarke, Shoosmiths, Restons etc, who all face the same problem. Now its worth pointing out, […]
Ive been fighting Cabot in their various guises for a number of years, right back when they were represented by Hodsons, Morgan Solicitors etc. I note they are now farming out their work to more mainstream firms such as Mortimer Clarke, Shoosmiths, Restons etc, who all face the same problem.
Now its worth pointing out, that Cabot have not as yet succeeded in a litigation that i have been the fee earner on, not one case.
The reasons they lose isnt because of their great lawyers, it isnt because the banks sold them duff accounts, well not always, the reason they lose is because they fail to do their due diligence, they fail to review their case before litigation, they fail to get their house in order.
As a consequence, they snatch defeat from the jaws of victory on many* occasions.
The good thing for consumers it seems is that this pattern hasnt changed. In a recent case Cabot instructed Restons, they issued proceedings on a credit agreement which was alleged to be from Opus, only one problem, Opus didnt exist back in 1990s so the client couldnt have entered into such an agreement.
As a result the pleadings were simply incapable of being proven, ever, without amendment they were as dead as a dead bloke from deadsville. So, a request was made to inspect a copy of the alleged credit agreement, if Cabot were so sure it existed they must surely have a copy, after all only a fool would sign their name to a statement of truth if they hadnt seen all the core documents.
Restons refused to provide the agreement, instead making thinly veiled attempts to deflect attention back at the client with comments like “your client would have had a copy of the agreement when he opened the account so he should check his records” . Sadly for them though, CPR 31.14 does not say, the Claimant does not have to allow inspection if the document was sent to the Defendant about 20 years ago, nice try Restons.
So, considering the very helpful ruling of Rix LJ in Expandable v Rubin, a firm reply was sent reasserting our clients right to inspect this document. If they refused then an application to strike out would follow, firstly on the grounds the pleadings were so sparse they didnt comply with CPR 16, secondly the pleadings were an abuse of process and did not have a real prospect of success because they were incapable of proof and lastly because the breach of CPR 31.14 fell within CPR 3.4(2)(c) and therefore was a breach of a rule!!
An application was made to the Court, but before it could be heard Cabot appeared to run out of imodium and therefore had to discontinue. They will say it was a commercial decision im sure, but lets look at this shall we, you buy a debt for around 2-5%, in this case the debt was over £20,000 plus interest and costs if they won at trial, so instead of fighting this case they run away and pay all legal fees???? is that the actions of someone so sure of winning? is that really a commercial decision? cant see a business lasting that long on such commercial principals.
Perhaps, in another universe, there is an alternate reason why they abandoned a good claim?? that may be because the credit agreement wasnt with Opus? it wasnt signed by the Debtor? it wasnt enforceable? it was a citi agreement which citi failed to ensure contained all of the prescribed terms? now theres a thought for another day, however on this occasion we will just have to believe the reason why they threw £20k in the bin and paid ALL legal costs was simply because of a commercial decision huh



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[FlamingParrot]

Re: CCJ from Mortimer Clarke on behalf of Cabot (OPUS Credit Card Debt sold to them)

Having looked further into the Paper work, it was a credit card with Citi not Opus, though Claim Form states Opus - is this a basis of contest?

Uhmmm... I recall another post with a similar issue on the particulars of claim where PT made some comments about it, I'll see if I can find it.

I also had a Citi card, they were all sold to Opus, however, in 2008 the agreement wouldn't have been with Opus, they only sold them in 2010.