help needed please - application form as CCA sec 77 ?

[hellhasnofury]

Hello,

Quick update,

Received a letter from th BCSB MMMMmmmm as much use as a chocolate fireguard

Reply from HFC not from the CEO, he is obviously far too busy and has passed it on to his lacky.

Their response. They have confirmed the application form is the credit agreement and insist it is.

They have sent me an apology that I did not receive the default notice and sent me a marbles template to show me what I should of received.

They will waiver the collection charge, if I write to restons to admit the balance of £xxxxx, fully exclusive of all court fees, costs and interest.

Any comment please,

I do feel that a letter is about to be letter contructed in response.

Thank you for your confirmation that the document you have sent me is the credit agreement for this alleged debt

[hellhasnofury]

Defence submitted and received confirmation form the courts today, so now will just have to wait and see. They have 28days in which to respond or not!!!!

Have sent letters today to the chief exc at hfc and the ceo at hsbc complaining as regards their breaches of the oft guidlines and banking code etc.
Alos informed oft and the bankingcode standards board. So that has kept me busy over the weekend.

[Amethyst]

aye I honestly think this is all you need..the other bits wait for bundles or further pleadings. I have ask Cet and Cel to have a look before you send it off I'll nudge them before I go.

You can enter the defence online same way you acknowleged -- but yes I'd prefer to send it in paper copy attached to the court forms. I assume you okay with layout etc. Dont forget to attach the appendix's.

Get it sent in and then chill for a while. Phone the court in a week check all is received etc.

Now in mine, not sure about in fed's, HFC asked for summary judgment, which they got.

In yours I do think they will produce the CCA if there is one, then you will be able to enter your back up defence....but after this is submitted it will just be a matter of waiting a while.

Good luck hun, you've worked hard...and we will get this sorted for you.

[hellhasnofury]

1. This Defence is filed and served without prejudice to the right of the Defendant to apply for summary judgment in respect of and/or to strike out the Particulars of Claim.

2. The defendant wrote to the claimant on 11th April 2007 enclosing a statutory £1 fee to request a signed copy of the executed agreement, under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. (Appendix 1)

3. In response to the defendants request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The claimant returned to the defendant a copy of a pre-contractual application form presented here. Whereas s.189 [definitions] describes "executed document" as "a document, signed by, or on behalf of, the parties, embodying the terms of a regulated agreement, or such of them as have been reduced to writing " (Appendix 2)

4. This pre-contractual document does not contain ALL of the prescribed terms under schedule (6) The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983

5. The Defendant further requested on the 2nd June 2007 that the Claimant supply the defendant with a true copy of the original credit agreement. This request has not been addressed.

6. The Defendant would further request via the court for the Claimant to remedy this by presenting the defendant with a copy of the original credit agreement. In the event that the Claimant fails to do so within 14 days of the service of the Defence then the Defendant will apply to the Court for an Order striking out the Particulars of Claim.

7.The Claimant is continuing to process Defendants data with Credit Reference Agencies. Defendant understands that Claimant has given an undertaking to said Credit Reference Agencies that before processing data from a data subject, they confirm they have the data subjects' permission. No executed copy means the Claimant is processing Defendants data without permission. In breach of their arrangement and a possible breach of the first principle of the Data Protection Act 1998.

8.The Defendant reserves the right to plead further to the Particulars of Claim once and if the Claimant produces the original agreement. In the meantime, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief whether as pleaded or at all.

Hiya Ameythst,

Should this be the final draft, Do I print it off and attach it to the court papers.

Gotta go to work now, no rest for the wicked
Are you away tomorrow for your holiday.

If so have a good rest and hope the weather improves. I might go to Anglesly next weekend for a break.

Speak soon

[Amethyst]

1. This Defence is filed and served without prejudice to the right of the Defendant to apply for summary judgment in respect of and/or to strike out the Particulars of Claim.

2. The defendant wrote to the claimant on 11th April 2007 enclosing a statutory £1 fee to request a signed copy of the executed agreement, under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. (Appendix 1)

3. In response to the defendants request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The claimant returned to the defendant a copy of a pre-contractual application form presented here. Whereas s.189 [definitions] describes "executed document" as "a document, signed by, or on behalf of, the parties, embodying the terms of a regulated agreement, or such of them as have been reduced to writing " (Appendix 2)

4. This pre-contractual document does not contain ALL of the prescribed terms under schedule (6) The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983

5. The Defendant further requested on the 2nd June 2007 that the Claimant supply the defendant with a true copy of the original credit agreement. This request has not been addressed.

6. The Defendant would further request via the court for the Claimant to remedy this by presenting the defendant with a copy of the original credit agreement. In the event that the Claimant fails to do so within 14 days of the service of the Defence then the Defendant will apply to the Court for an Order striking out the Particulars of Claim.

7.The Claimant is continuing to process Defendants data with Credit Reference Agencies. Defendant understands that Claimant has given an undertaking to said Credit Reference Agencies that before processing data from a data subject, they confirm they have the data subjects' permission. No executed copy means the Claimant is processing Defendants data without permission. In breach of their arrangement and a possible breach of the first principle of the Data Protection Act 1998.

8.The Defendant reserves the right to plead further to the Particulars of Claim once and if the Claimant produces the original agreement. In the meantime, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief whether as pleaded or at all.

[Amethyst]

thanks for the 2nd draft hell

i think we should leave the wilson case out - i doesnt really add anything and we can bring that and a few other decent cases in further down the line....we need running credit ones wilson is a fixed credit agreement so there are differences.

I'll paste the amendments to your second draft in a bit I'm just getting another couple eyes over it.

[hellhasnofury]

Well I cetainly don't think you are a spy Hell, I've seen some of your posts on PPI and as I said on your arrival here, well admire you for that.
I didn't know how much you had going on in your life, especially with this. I can't help you with this I haven't a clue, but I will say good luck with it, although looks like you are in good hands and on top of things
I can say though, when you are feeling a bit naffed off and want to pack it all in, I am here for a bit of light banter and you can give me ears a bashing I don't mind. All the best Enaid.

Thank you Enaid,

I was a bit tongue in cheek with the spy thing. We were messing about in the chat room,

Thanks for your post it is really kind of you to be so thoughful.

I have found this site so helpful and yes I do believe I am in good hands, I think I would have put my hands up and would not have the confidence to fight them.

I am getting there now

[enaid]

Well I cetainly don't think you are a spy Hell, I've seen some of your posts on PPI and as I said on your arrival here, well admire you for that.
I didn't know how much you had going on in your life, especially with this. I can't help you with this I haven't a clue, but I will say good luck with it, although looks like you are in good hands and on top of things
I can say though, when you are feeling a bit naffed off and want to pack it all in, I am here for a bit of light banter and you can give me ears a bashing I don't mind. All the best Enaid.

[hellhasnofury]

[SIZE=-1]Schedule 6 to the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations [B]1983


from the wilson v first case - draft here This is a draft of the judgment to be handed down on ––––– 2000 at ––––– a.m. in Court No –––––. It is confidential to Counsel and Solicitors, but the substance may be communicated to clients not more than one hour before the giving of judgment. The

bear with me lol

Bear with you, I am standing to attention how good are you to me

[Amethyst]

Schedule 6 to the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983

21. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 SI 1983 No.1553 made under s.60 lay down in detail what information is to be contained in a regulated agreement and, in some cases, the form it should take. Schedule 1 specifies the information to be given in the various types of agreement with which the Act is concerned. Some, but not all, of that information is prescribed by Regulation 6 for the purposes of s.61(1)(a). In the case of this agreement prescribed information includes (Schedule 6 para 2) "a term stating the amount of the credit". It is accepted that the reference in the agreement to "loan" both in the box and in the body of the document is a sufficient reference to credit. But the amount of the credit is not properly shown because the figure should be �5,000 not �5,250. It must follow, and I accept, that the agreement was not properly executed (s.61(1)(a)) and could only be enforced by an order of the court under s.65.

from the wilson v first case - draft here This is a draft of the judgment to be handed down on ––––– 2000 at ––––– a.m. in Court No –––––. It is confidential to Counsel and Solicitors, but the substance may be communicated to clients not more than one hour before the giving of judgment. The

bear with me lol

[TropicalMoonShine]

Hiya Hell!

Just to let you know I'm still here and thinking about you

Ame is really the best to sort out your defence with you - she's such a fountain of knowledge, and sorted mine out for me a treat!

Keep on going!

((Huge hugs))

Fed
xxx

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Amey,

I found this on the oft website


the statement issued by the OFT on the 21st May 2007.

Some of the fitness issues taken into account when revoking and refusing licences during this period included acts of physical violence, fraud, causing grievous bodily harm and obtaining property by deception, and breaches of the Consumer Credit Act.

In considering fitness, the OFT takes into account a number of factors carried out by the business or anyone involved in running the business including:
any offence or conviction of violence or dishonesty

failure to comply with the provisions of the Consumer Credit Act or other consumer protection legislation
consumer complaints
evidence of unfair business practices
evidence of discrimination on grounds of sex, colour, race or ethic/national origin.

Watda ya think????? Should I sent a letter to the oft re this????????????????

I know the oft are a bit wishywashy but in court I could said that I had contacted them regarding this most serious issue and by the time court comes I may have a response

[hellhasnofury]

1. This Defence is filed and served without prejudice to the right of the Defendant to apply for summary judgment in respect of and/or to strike out the Particulars of Claim.

2. The defendant wrote to the claimant on 11th April 2007 enclosing a statutory £1 fee to request a signed copy of the agreement, under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. (Appendix 1)

3. In response to the defendants request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The claimant returned to the defendant a copy of a pre-contractual application form presented here (Appendix 2)

4 This pre-contractual document does not contain all of the prescribed terms under schedule (6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974:

• amount of credit – see Q8.4 - do these relate to schedule 6 parts ? or the application form ?
• credit limit – see Q8.5
• rate of interest – see Q8.6
• repayments – see Q8.9.

5. The credit agreement should be a true copy of the signed executed agreement as stipulated in Consumer Credit Act 1974(section 77), therefore must be identical to the original.

6. Agreement regulations 1553 via CCA1974( section 60(1) alone renders the agreement unenforceable without the order of the court CCA 1974(section65), as it is improperly executed as per CCA 1974,section 61(a).

7. More importantly any agreement not complying with the CCA 1974 section 61(a)via CCA 1974 section 65 if not containing the debtors signature and prescribed terms is unenforceable the CCA 1974 as per section127(3).


8.The Defendant further requested on the 2nd June 2007 that the Claimant supply the defendant with a copy of the original credit agreement. This request has not been addressed by the claimant.

9. The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79) state clearly that the claimant has 12 days to fulfill the request after which the claimant is in default. After a further calendar month the debt becomes unenforceable. These time limits expired on 2nd May 2007 and 2nd June 2007.

10. . By failing to comply within the specified prescribed time the claimant has committed a criminal offence.

11. The Defendant would further request via the court for the Claimant to remedy this by presenting the defendant with a copy of the original credit agreement. In the event that the Claimant fails to do so within 14 days of the service of the Defence then the Defendant will apply to the Court for an Order striking out the Particulars of Claim.

12. The Defendant reserves the right to plead further to the Particulars of Claim once and if the Claimant produces the original agreement. In the meantime, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief whether as pleaded or at all.








Thats really good hell. Well done you.

You dont have a link to schedule 6 online do you per chance ?

I don't what schedule 6 is incorparated in the cca or the guidelines????????

Also reading between the lines the bit about the non compliance of the 77-78. I think the fact that they sent me the application form they did comply, but maybe need to quote something regarding them misleading me into to thinking it was a ca????????

Really fedup with it now and my head is spinning and no its not the drink, it the lack of it. I am on call tonight.:rolleyes:

Again thanks for being there i truely appreciate you help and support.

[hellhasnofury]

Hi hell, just a bit of reassurance - I'm reading through and amending this now for you.

Thanks Ameythst, I thought everbody believe me to be a spy from the other side and had put me to coventry I'm not just scared I'm paranoid:o

[Amethyst]

1. This Defence is filed and served without prejudice to the right of the Defendant to apply for summary judgment in respect of and/or to strike out the Particulars of Claim.

2. The defendant wrote to the claimant on 11th April 2007 enclosing a statutory £1 fee to request a signed copy of the agreement, under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. (Appendix 1)

3. In response to the defendants request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The claimant returned to the defendant a copy of a pre-contractual application form presented here (Appendix 2)

4 This pre-contractual document does not contain all of the prescribed terms under schedule (6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974:

• amount of credit – see Q8.4 - do these relate to schedule 6 parts ? or the application form ?
• credit limit – see Q8.5
• rate of interest – see Q8.6
• repayments – see Q8.9.

5. The credit agreement should be a true copy of the signed executed agreement as stipulated in Consumer Credit Act 1974(section 77), therefore must be identical to the original.

6. Agreement regulations 1553 via CCA1974( section 60(1) alone renders the agreement unenforceable without the order of the court CCA 1974(section65), as it is improperly executed as per CCA 1974,section 61(a).

7. More importantly any agreement not complying with the CCA 1974 section 61(a)via CCA 1974 section 65 if not containing the debtors signature and prescribed terms is unenforceable the CCA 1974 as per section127(3).


8.The Defendant further requested on the 2nd June 2007 that the Claimant supply the defendant with a copy of the original credit agreement. This request has not been addressed by the claimant.

9. The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79) state clearly that the claimant has 12 days to fulfill the request after which the claimant is in default. After a further calendar month the debt becomes unenforceable. These time limits expired on 2nd May 2007 and 2nd June 2007.

10. . By failing to comply within the specified prescribed time the claimant has committed a criminal offence.

11. The Defendant would further request via the court for the Claimant to remedy this by presenting the defendant with a copy of the original credit agreement. In the event that the Claimant fails to do so within 14 days of the service of the Defence then the Defendant will apply to the Court for an Order striking out the Particulars of Claim.

12. The Defendant reserves the right to plead further to the Particulars of Claim once and if the Claimant produces the original agreement. In the meantime, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief whether as pleaded or at all.








Thats really good hell. Well done you.

You dont have a link to schedule 6 online do you per chance ?