Hello to you all.

[Little11]

A big hello to everyone. Great site with loads of good info.

I do have a pressing issue I would like a little feed back on if it's possible.
I will try and post it in the right thread

Again ... a big Hello

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Hello to you all.

hello hun, welcome to LB, whats the issue you need help with, lets see how we an all help you

[Little11]

Re: Hello to you all.

hello puffrose and thank you.

It's regarding a courts jurisdiction over a claim from a creditor where no agreement with all the prescribed terms exist between me and a creditor.
I will post a new thread on this if you could advise where the best place to post it would be

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Hello to you all.

what i suggest is, post your problem here and i can ask an admin to move it to the relevent place hun..
Whats to do?

[Little11]

Re: Hello to you all.

OK here goes....


I received a court claim from screwfix direct ltd for an outstanding balance on a trade account.
A little background info. I applied for a trade account on-line with screwfix direct (trading as Trade UK) in 2010. This application was declined (I have the email stating this).
Now being a small start up business, (sole trader) money was tight and I was finding it difficult in trying to make it a success for my family.
Some time later (it may have been weeks I can’t remember) a Trade UK trade account card is sent to me, wow I thought, this was declined yet they still set up an account for me.
I did use it on several occasions and paid the money back on account. Things got a little slow on the work front and the account was not always cleared when it should have been.
Now a balance if left to pay and I did not pay it. I admit that, things were really tough, buying nappies is sometimes a problem.
They sent me a court claim to retrieve the balance which is fine I guess but I do have a query which requires some, lets say …… technical advice.

I do not dispute the account exists but does an agreement with all the prescribed terms as per the consumer credit act exist between us???
Does this creditor have legal basis to apply to the court?
Do the court have jurisdiction over this issue if no agreement with all the prescribed terms exist between us??

Any feedback would be really helpful as I feel this will go to a hearing.

Many thanks indeed.

[Hurricane Puffrose]

Re: Hello to you all.

hmm, im no expert in this field whatsoever, but i will ask someone to come have a read for you, and to move it to the right place

[Little11]

Re: Hello to you all.

thank you so much.

[Bill-K]

Re: Hello to you all.

Hi Little, and welcome to you. I'm sorry to hear that things got a bit difficult for you. It's probably little consolation to you, but you're not alone.

As I understand it, Screwfix declined your application for credit, and you have email proof of this. Then, out of the blue, they sent you a card, which neither you - nor they - had agreed upon. There was thus no agreement - written or verbal - between you, it seems.

So, from that perspective, it does indeed seem to me that you cannot be pursued in court for this debt under the Consumer Credit Act.

However, you used the card which was sent to you - it it could perhaps then be inferred that by doing so, you accepted whatever terms applied to it. If there were no terms made clear to you, then I would imagine the only term that a court could enforce is that you owe them the money. However, there is no term stating WHEN it has to be repaid, so - again - I would say that the repayment of the debt is not enforceable by the court - and after 6 years it becomes Statute-barred.

This is just my take on this, though - I'm a maths geek - not a lawyer !!!

[bluebottle]

Re: Hello to you all.

What efforts have Screwfix made to try and resolve this?

If they're resorting to court action as a first line of attack, they're going to get a shock when the court turns round and tells them to go back to you and try to sort it out. Courts are the place of last resort for sorting out things like this, not the first place.

If you have received no correspondence from Screwfix regarding the arrears of account, a court will take a dim view.

[teaboy2]

Re: Hello to you all.

Hi

First off all is this a 30 day trade account i.e. where each order you place is put on a 30 day invoice? (Thats how most trade accounts operate)

If so then this is nothing to do with the consumer credit act 1974. This is a contract to provide goods. You will likely see that their terms and conditions are nothing to do with credit card, loans or anything under the consumer credit act, not even under hire purchase agreements (well once you ask them for a copy). You basically ordered the goods to resell, the property of the goods remains the suppliers until you pay them, they can either recover the goods or the amount owed for the goods under the contract!

I know its not what you wanted to hear but i have many trade accounts and not a single one is based on the consumer credit act 1974. They are basically business 2 business contracts!

In fact the terms are contained within their online application form which you will have likely printed out and signed by hand before sending back to them - http://www.screwfix.com/images/help/...n_23_09_10.pdf

As you can see its not a consumer credit agreement its a simple but legally binding contract! Also in my experience after a few months trading with a trade account on cash per order basis they will offer you a credit limit over 30-60 invoice periods for each order you make!

[Bill-K]

Re: Hello to you all.

I know its not what you wanted to hear but i have many trade accounts and not a single one is based on the consumer credit act 1974. They are basically business 2 business contracts!

What we wanted to hear was a clear explanation of the backing for this - and that's what we got. Thank you, sir !!!

[Little11]

Re: Hello to you all.

thank you all for your feedback.

I do tend to side with teaboy2 on this unfortunately, there is no mention of the CCA anywhere on their application site or T&C's.

mmmmmm

They did request an income and expenditure form which I filled in and sent to them back in January but they totally ignored me. It clearly stated that at that time (and now) I couldn't afford to pay it back.
I had to close the business due to lack of work.

We are at present on benefits and below what the government states we need to live on (which is £194 per week).

[Shadowcat]

Re: Hello to you all.

Too quick to go to court. You have been offered no chance to pay affordable instalments? What are they playing at?

[Shadowcat]

Re: Hello to you all.

I have re-read your opening post and see you haven't signed any CCA or seen T&C's as you thought your application had been declined. Screwfix therefore need court permission to pursue this debt, I assume that will be what they are seeking. So yes, the court do have jurisdiction to permit the initial pursuing of the debt. You however have the right to have your hardship taken into account only AFTER they win the right to pursue and offer £1 per week or whatever you can afford.

They have been a little premature requesting an I&E form in my opinion as they still need to seek permission to chase, if they present this in court without your presence you have the right to object. They cannot ask for permission to pursue a debt and then go on to get an amount agreed without you present.

If they ask you to appear you need to find out exactly why and what their court action is for at this stage.

I think they are having a panic about no CCA being drawn up and signed.

[Shadowcat]

Re: Hello to you all.

They have been a bit naughty in my opinion getting hold of the I&E form as they may use this as acknowledgement of a debt. They don't deserve to win, they have been negligent in adhering to the terms of the CCA by sending you a card straight away. What checks would they have done?

You may find Screwfix will win this due to perceived acknowledgement by returning the form but then you are within your rights to ask questions about the way they went about this. They deliberately entrapped by just send the card - I have heard this done before by Santander after someone abandoned a bank account application part way through, the next thing they had a brand new account complete with Visa card, the person had bad credit so it was almost like Santander jumped on the chance of someone who would accrue charges which they subsequently did.

I suggest if the court does allow them to pursue to then start asking questions such as why did they not send you a CCA, what credit checks did they do and which credit company did they use, what was the reason behind advising you your application had been declined, etc. Just make it awkward for them as they have not played fair.

I would say in bold at the foot of the letter that you consider the way this application was handled constitutes an unfair relationship as you were not sent a true copy of the terms and conditions.