disclosure on closed bank account & varied T&Cs

[CleverClogs]

Re: disclosure on closed bank account & varied T&Cs

Any reputable creditor would have a paper trail that would include records of credit card details or bank details for which those payments were made by.

The creditor seems to be Triton Credit Services uke:

Hence, I am not sure that the adjective "reputable" would apply.

[teaboy2]

Re: disclosure on closed bank account & varied T&Cs

The creditor seems to be Triton Credit Services uke:

Hence, I am not sure that the adjective "reputable" would apply.

I don't think it applies to any of them to be honest lol

[Gorang]

Re: disclosure on closed bank account & varied T&Cs

Teaboy after reading your post 30, it reminded me of pumpytums thread I read today (ie onus on them to prove where their proof came from) and in post 16 pumpy refered to a N268 covered by cpr 32.19

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...294#post236294

Now Boxer said in post 1 in here, that the claimant has said there has been payments paid but boxer says they were NOT made, so good chance the claimant will prob have fabricated the payments

If I am correct with what I'm thinking, then boxer could use a N268 app and 32.19 to make them prove the trail of the alleged payments, WITHOUT boxer giving them any info at all,

coz as you said teaboy the onus is on them to come up with the proof not the other way round, so this could make them prove where their proof has came from, if this makes sense

I can't decide if I have just over complicated the issue, or if this would help put this to bed early

What do others think with this

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: disclosure on closed bank account & varied T&Cs

Barristers are only allowed to take Direct Access instructions once they have 3 years' post-qualifying experience.

[teaboy2]

Re: disclosure on closed bank account & varied T&Cs

Teaboy after reading your post 30, it reminded me of pumpytums thread I read today (ie onus on them to prove where their proof came from) and in post 16 pumpy refered to a N268 covered by cpr 32.19

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...294#post236294

Now Boxer said in post 1 in here, that the claimant has said there has been payments paid but boxer says they were NOT made, so good chance the claimant will prob have fabricated the payments

If I am correct with what I'm thinking, then boxer could use a N268 app and 32.19 to make them prove the trail of the alleged payments, WITHOUT boxer giving them any info at all,

coz as you said teaboy the onus is on them to come up with the proof not the other way round, so this could make them prove where their proof has came from, if this makes sense

I can't decide if I have just over complicated the issue, or if this would help put this to bed early

What do others think with this

Exactly the way to go Gorang

No its not complicated it, it has simplified it by putting it firmly in the claiments court to prove there own claims and not deflect the onus of proof onto the defendant. they have no way round it to be honest.

[Gorang]

Re: disclosure on closed bank account & varied T&Cs

Thanks teaboy as I needed more eyes over that as the more I looked at it the more i was starting to convince myself that it would get over complicated lol


So boxer would be best to get a N268 application submitted asap I persume

[teaboy2]

Re: disclosure on closed bank account & varied T&Cs

Thanks teaboy as I needed more eyes over that as the more I looked at it the more i was starting to convince myself that it would get over complicated lol


So boxer would be best to get a N268 application submitted asap I persume

Yes the sooner the better, it will completely throw the claiments case into dissary as its clear they are trying to pull a fastone by getting to OP to prove by providing details off accounts that so far the claiment has not proved as being connected to the case. And the N268 under 32.19 rule will force them to have to produce the evidence that their claim and statments regarding the payments are true and not fabbricated, and only way to do that is be providing a paper trail back to the payments being made which would include details as to the transactions themself. i.e. date of transaction, time, payment method, and card/bank details and that they can then find out the name of the card or account holder, but then they would have to prove (if name is same as OP) that the OP and the account holder of same name is one and the same person. So they will have one hell of a task at hand, hence why they are trying to avoid it by trying to pass to onus of proof onto the defendant to proof that they did not make the payments.

So basically with the N268 under 32.19 their claim is most probably well and truely screwed, as i doubt they have the required evidence (paper trail) to proof the authenticity of the statements of the said payments. That plus the payments are from 7 years ago meaning they can not bring a claim on said payments anyway as the limitation act prevents them from enforcing a debt when last payment or acknowledgement was over 6 years ago (5 in scotland).

So they are well and truely buggered in my opinion - but then i expect this kind of thing from trident lol

Now OP go take the numpties to the cleaners by getting costs awarded and counter claim for damages for libel, if they have put a default or any adverse data on your credit file relating this debt.

[Boxerdog8]

Re: disclosure on closed bank account & varied T&Cs

Dear all, thank you for your posts and time. This is a quick reply but will go through in more details later.
I need to look at the "issuing of a claim or counterclaim" stops time running under the Limatations Act? (anyone know anything about this?) so in this Claim it is not 6-7 years ago (if the payments on the reconstucted credit card statements are right)it was 5.5 years ago. I think (not sure) the otherside will use the statements above and purged memos to state I made 3 payments. There is reference to a switch card via Triton but not the amount of payment, or the name of the bank, hence the disclsoure issues. There is another payment that I know I did not make.

I want to look at IEA issues but I think they will just amend their current T&C's for trial under restructed agreements. One application form has no APR and the second has no bank address, it has the processing centre address.

Could someone kindly tell me how to e-mail directly to Gorang............

The Case Management Conference will be about putting me on the spot............

I know that it is for the other side to prove but I think they have enough evidence to say the payments were on "probability" were made, with the purged memos. The Judge will go on the overall picture and not small details, with the Carey case this just supports this view.

My young son is swinging on my back so must go and give him some time.
I will post tonight.................
Boxer.

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: disclosure on closed bank account & varied T&Cs

The issue of a claim in court DOES stop the clock, as any delay is then the responsibility of the court service, and it would be unjust for the parties' dispute to be adversely affected by the efficiency or otherwise of HMCS.

[Gorang]

Re: disclosure on closed bank account & varied T&Cs

Could someone kindly tell me how to e-mail directly to Gorang............

Incoming PM with my email address

I know that it is for the other side to prove but I think they have enough evidence to say the payments were on "probability" were made, with the purged memos

If you made the N268 application then probability is NOT enough, they will have to prove everything.

Also can we get a timeline, the POC, and your defence please boxer as I suspect we are going to see and learn a lot more from that as I seriously supect there will be a LOT more that you can defend with and make THEM prove

ie I suspect that the proceedures that they have done leading up to submitting the claim will NOT have been done correctly and there is a chance we could get the claim STRUCK OUT for you

But we will NOT know for sure until we can see the POC Defence and timeline

At the mo we are still just guessing, so can't give full and accruate and direct advise

I know it will take you a while to compile the timeline but it WILL be time WELL spent

[SpringerSpaniel]

Re: disclosure on closed bank account & varied T&Cs

If you have grounds other than statutory limitation with which to defend the case against you, you should apply for leave to amend your defence and plead limitation in the alternative to your other defences. If you posted redacted POC and Defence case statement, LB members can advise further.

[teaboy2]

Re: disclosure on closed bank account & varied T&Cs

Dear all, thank you for your posts and time. This is a quick reply but will go through in more details later.
I need to look at the "issuing of a claim or counterclaim" stops time running under the Limatations Act? (anyone know anything about this?) so in this Claim it is not 6-7 years ago (if the payments on the reconstucted credit card statements are right)it was 5.5 years ago. I think (not sure) the otherside will use the statements above and purged memos to state I made 3 payments. There is reference to a switch card via Triton but not the amount of payment, or the name of the bank, hence the disclsoure issues. There is another payment that I know I did not make. And your use of N268 under CPR 32.19 Rules will force them to prove that the payments were made by you and that any card used to make such payments was yours and that any such payment actually occured when they claim it did. In otherwords you will not have to produce your bank statements at all and - Off course they will have your switch card details (probably from when you first took out loans etc), but can they proof it was used to make the payment on the date they claim and for the amount they claim, as clearly they can not. hence why they are wanting your bank statements, but you do not have to provide your statements as the onus of proof is on them and the N268 under cpr31.19 makes that clear.

I want to look at IEA issues but I think they will just amend their current T&C's for trial under restructed agreements. One application form has no APR and the second has no bank address, it has the processing centre address. Only a true copy of the original signed agreement or signed origianl terms that include the perscribed terms can be used in court (section 61(1)(a) and 127(3) of the Act), a reconstructed agreement is not enforceable in court.

Could someone kindly tell me how to e-mail directly to Gorang............ Click on gorangs name then click contact if tab followed by send PM to gorang.

The Case Management Conference will be about putting me on the spot............ But if you use the N268 under cpr32.19 the spot light will then be on Trident and not on you.

I know that it is for the other side to prove but I think they have enough evidence to say the payments were on "probability" were made, with the purged memos. The Judge will go on the overall picture and not small details, with the Carey case this just supports this view. hence why you need the N268 under cpr32.19. To strict them to proof that you made the payments. which would throw the balance of probablity equation out of the window, as all they have is basically payment made on such and such a date and a switch card was use - Sorry but that does not proof it was your card or any payment was taken, expecially when like you said above they do not know the amount of payment made or the bank connected to the card. therefore making there claim hearsay and circumstanial at best

My young son is swinging on my back so must go and give him some time.
I will post tonight.................
Boxer.

Response in red above. USE the N268 under CPR32.19 because as i said it would stop their claim dead in its tracks. And basically result in their claim being thrown out as a result of them not being able to prove you made the payments. The only reason that are seeking disclosure from you of your bank statements is because they themselves know they do not have the evidence as are merely attempting to get round the onus of proof being on them, by seeking such a disclosure from you, purely in the hope that the documents you disclose provide them with the evidence they need to back up their claim. But the law is clear, the onus of proof is on the claiment it is not for the defendant to prove of provide the claiment with evidence proofing the claiments cases.

[Gorang]

Re: disclosure on closed bank account & varied T&Cs

I got your email boxer

I have replied to you

For the benifit of others boxer has now email me a load of docs so I will get them checked for personal details and post them up

I have also asked boxer to call me on my mob so I can get a timeline put together

Will post up again soon

[Gorang]

Re: disclosure on closed bank account & varied T&Cs

I will use this post as the time line post and edit as I know more

DCA takes over the account (don't know which DCA yet, but their company number is 02686796)

Boxer submits claim against DCA as DCA listed a default and refused to say what the account was for (don't know which DCA yet)

Default was listed 1 yr later and was a mistake (I am assuming this was reason for boxers claim)

DCA then submits Counter claim and filed it late

Boxer then finds out account is statute barred and withdraws her claim

Boxer applies for hearing not to allow counter claim as claimant had already withdrew claim

Court awards costs to the DCA from boxer (I wonder if we can use this some way)

DCA then submits a claim in which this is what boxer is battling against now



Boxer now waiting for the court order for last hearing as the WS for trial has not been filed for either side
DCA refusing to do this until boxer discloses all evidence
Boxer has offered bank statements relating to the two accounts
DCA not accepting that

I will add all the doc's that boxer sent me in the next few posts as there are 16 docs in total

[Gorang]

Re: disclosure on closed bank account & varied T&Cs

First 5 pages of the DCA's defence and counter