• Welcome to the LegalBeagles Consumer and Legal Forum.
    Please Register to get the most out of the forum. Registration is free and only needs a username and email address.
    REGISTER
    Please do not post your full name, reference numbers or any identifiable details on the forum.

Final hearing today

Collapse
Loading...
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Final hearing today

    Hi All, recently discovered this forum but I was already a fairly long way into defending a claim, so no previous posts on this site.

    Quick bit of background

    Claimant didn't send a LBA
    Lied about her address on the initial claim form and all communication going forward (Royal Mail redirect in place)
    Claimant refused ADR
    Ignored all requests for further information and would not engage in any way.
    Claimant missed first Dispute resolution appointment, citing "incorrect number" as the reason. The claim was struck out but then reinstated upon her appeal.
    Witness statement was spurious, at best, mostly baseless and malicious in content.

    I have tried to stick to Practice direction and have cited various

    The DJ skimmed both statements, dismissing 90% of the claimant's document as irrelevant which pretty much left her word as "proof"
    My own statement contained various bullet points on PD (Process, Address, refusal to engage etc) which the judge said was "irrelevant"

    I successfully defended part of the claim, but lost other parts.

    The claimant had completely ignored all pre-action protocol but the DJ then went on to award costs as well

    I'm flabbergasted to be honest. I was almost certain that it would be an open and shut case in my favour and a very possible contempt of court finding against the claimant.

    I had no idea a DJ could just dismiss practice direction as "irrelevant", otherwise what is the point of it?
    Is it worth appealing the decision or am I wasting my time?
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Celestine

    Comment


    • #3
      The OP tells us nothing about the nature of the claim or his grounds for contesting it.
      Lawyer (solicitor) - retired from practice, now supervising solicitor in a university law clinic. I do not advise by private message.

      Litigants in Person should download and read this: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/..._in_Person.pdf

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by atticus View Post
        The OP tells us nothing about the nature of the claim or his grounds for contesting it.
        The claim was a private money dispute between two individuals..
        I can live with the claimant's witness statement not being challenged over clear dishonestly, notwithstanding that I was able to point out obvious attempts to mislead the court.

        Obviously, I don't think the judgement was fair but appreciate that is not grounds to appeal in and of itself.

        My problem with the judgement was that the DJ completely dismissed PD as "irrelevant" and I imagine that would be my grounds to contest it.

        I'm also not particularly thrilled about having to pay costs for a case where pre-action protocol was completely ignored.

        Comment


        • #5
          We still know nothing about the strength or weakness of the grounds on which you contested the case.
          Lawyer (solicitor) - retired from practice, now supervising solicitor in a university law clinic. I do not advise by private message.

          Litigants in Person should download and read this: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/..._in_Person.pdf

          Comment


          • #6
            The claimant paid for some repairs to my home, in lieu of contributions for food, utilities, council tax etc etc. We agreed this at the time, nothing was written down.
            The claim stated that I had verbally agreed to pay this back.
            Since there was no hard or electronic (text, email etc) evidence of any agreement, this came down to my word versus hers. The claimants witness statement was a pack of lies and mud slinging, mostly completely irrelevant to the case but countered regardless, with proof. The JD just said the paragraphs were irrelevant without any consideration to the honesty of the claimant's overall statement.
            My supporting evidence also showed regular payments from her to me, 50% of bills (evidence of a contract of sorts) which stopped on a particular date.

            No LBA contra to CPR Pre action para 14-18
            No agreement was produced by the claimant. contra to CPR 16.5(4) (JD said this was irrelevant)
            Pre-action protocol was completely ignored
            All requests for information were ignored by claimant
            Claimant refused ADR
            Claim was issued from an address the claimant didn't reside in or carries on business contra to CPR PD 16 2.2 (JD said this was irrelevant)
            Claimant continued to use the same address contra to CPR Rule 6.23 (JD said this was irrelevant)
            Claimant produced a heavily doctored bank statement with a clear attempt to mislead the court. This was ignored.

            So my question is, are the JD comments about CPR being irrelevant true?
            I'm confused at to why costs were awarded, since I had absolutely no choice about going to court due to the claimant's behaviour.

            Do I have any grounds to appeal or am I wasting my time?

            Comment


            • #7
              I still cannot say whether an appeal would have good prospects of success. You appear to think you have grounds to appeal, but you must understand that appeals are difficult.

              Your argument appears to be that your evidence was not properly considered. While I may be wrong, I wonder if you spent so much effort arguing procedural points that your arguments about the facts and evidence in the dispute did not get proper weight. Remember that the DJ had to decide on the balance of probabilities: which version of events is more likely to be correct?

              I sense a good deal of bitterness. Were you previously in a relationship with the claimant, or have I put 2 and 2 together and made 5?

              Here is some general guidance about appeals:

              https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ly-cases-ex340

              Here is the form for applying for permission to appeal:

              https://assets.publishing.service.go...9/n164-eng.pdf
              Lawyer (solicitor) - retired from practice, now supervising solicitor in a university law clinic. I do not advise by private message.

              Litigants in Person should download and read this: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/..._in_Person.pdf

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Nirvana View Post
                The claimant paid for some repairs to my home, in lieu of contributions for food, utilities, council tax etc etc. We agreed this at the time, nothing was written down.
                The claim stated that I had verbally agreed to pay this back.
                Since there was no hard or electronic (text, email etc) evidence of any agreement, this came down to my word versus hers. The claimants witness statement was a pack of lies and mud slinging, mostly completely irrelevant to the case but countered regardless, with proof. The JD just said the paragraphs were irrelevant without any consideration to the honesty of the claimant's overall statement.
                My supporting evidence also showed regular payments from her to me, 50% of bills (evidence of a contract of sorts) which stopped on a particular date.

                No LBA contra to CPR Pre action para 14-18
                No agreement was produced by the claimant. contra to CPR 16.5(4) (JD said this was irrelevant)
                Pre-action protocol was completely ignored
                All requests for information were ignored by claimant
                Claimant refused ADR
                Claim was issued from an address the claimant didn't reside in or carries on business contra to CPR PD 16 2.2 (JD said this was irrelevant)
                Claimant continued to use the same address contra to CPR Rule 6.23 (JD said this was irrelevant)
                Claimant produced a heavily doctored bank statement with a clear attempt to mislead the court. This was ignored.

                So my question is, are the JD comments about CPR being irrelevant true?
                I'm confused at to why costs were awarded, since I had absolutely no choice about going to court due to the claimant's behaviour.

                Do I have any grounds to appeal or am I wasting my time?
                Hi

                Difficult to say what the options are for an appeal.

                The lack of LBA is a cost point, the lack of agreement i can see why the judge took that view, the fact that requests for information were refused that should have been the trigger for an application to the Court for discovery.

                Refusing ADR again is a costs point ( see OMFS v PGF II)

                The wrong address, yeah i can see why you raise it but does it substantively affect your case? I doubt it.

                the doctored statement, did you get an expert to review this? Clearly an expert would be needed to make such an assertion unless you are qualified in forensic document analysis .

                In terms of an appeal, i cannot see grounds based on the above paragraphs, most go to the heart of costs only, and i dont see any decision where the judge was in error. Do you have a transcript of the judgment?
                I work for Roach Pittis Solicitors. I give my free time available to helping other on the forum and would be happy to try and assist informally where needed. Any posts I make on LegalBeagles are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as legal advice. Any advice I provide is without liability.

                If you need to contact me please email me on Pt@roachpittis.co.uk .

                I have been involved in leading consumer credit and data protection cases including Harrison v Link Financial Limited (High Court), Grace v Blackhorse (Court of Appeal) and also Kotecha v Phoenix Recoveries (Court of Appeal) along with a number of other reported cases and often blog about all things consumer law orientated.

                You can also follow my blog on consumer credit here.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Costs? Was this fast/multi track? Did the opponent use solicitors?

                  If there was any personal relationship/cohabitation involved, Judges will make unhelpful assumptions, often based on who plays the victim better sadly.

                  "Although scalar fields are Lorentz scalars, they may transform nontrivially under other symmetries, such as flavour or isospin. For example, the pion is invariant under the restricted Lorentz group, but is an isospin triplet (meaning it transforms like a three component vector under the SU(2) isospin symmetry). Furthermore, it picks up a negative phase under parity inversion, so it transforms nontrivially under the full Lorentz group; such particles are called pseudoscalar rather than scalar. Most mesons are pseudoscalar particles." (finally explained to a captivated Celestine by Professor Brian Cox on Wednesday 27th June 2012 )

                  I am proud to have co-founded LegalBeagles in 2007

                  If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

                  If you wish to book an appointment with me to discuss your credit agreement, please email kate@legalbeaglesgroup. com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks for all the replies.. I won't be appealing, since I have no confidence based upon my previous performance.

                    The main thrust of my argument, since it was a "he said - she said" type thing, was to highlight the dishonesty in the claimant's statement. Obviously I didn't have evidence for everything and it's difficult to prove a fictitious conversation didn't actually happen but I thought I'd done a fairly reasonable job. It was my hope that I could convince the DJ that the claim was false/malicious on the basis of the false witness statement.. So I was hamstrung when the DJ said that much of the claimant's witness statement was irrelevant and we wouldn't be addressing it.
                    I did think that lying on a witness statement was contempt of court.

                    I'm still confused as to why costs (filing claim, hearing cost and expenses) were granted to the claimant. The DJ just awarded them as though it was completely routine.
                    I was very clear in my own witness statement. No LBA, refusal to engage or reply to any communication, total failure to follow pre-action protocol. Refused ADR etc.

                    Celestine, this was via the small claims track. Yes, this had been a cohab relationship.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you for updating us. I understand your decision.

                      On the costs question, it is usual for court fees, hearing fee etc to be awarded against the losing party, even in the Small Claims track.. However, costs for legal representation are only allowed in the Fast and Multi tracks of the court system. In this regard, the small claims track does protect you from the horrific legal costs in the other tracks.
                      "Although scalar fields are Lorentz scalars, they may transform nontrivially under other symmetries, such as flavour or isospin. For example, the pion is invariant under the restricted Lorentz group, but is an isospin triplet (meaning it transforms like a three component vector under the SU(2) isospin symmetry). Furthermore, it picks up a negative phase under parity inversion, so it transforms nontrivially under the full Lorentz group; such particles are called pseudoscalar rather than scalar. Most mesons are pseudoscalar particles." (finally explained to a captivated Celestine by Professor Brian Cox on Wednesday 27th June 2012 )

                      I am proud to have co-founded LegalBeagles in 2007

                      If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

                      If you wish to book an appointment with me to discuss your credit agreement, please email kate@legalbeaglesgroup. com

                      Comment

                      View our Terms and Conditions

                      LegalBeagles Group uses cookies to enhance your browsing experience and to create a secure and effective website. By using this website, you are consenting to such use.To find out more and learn how to manage cookies please read our Cookie and Privacy Policy.

                      If you would like to opt in, or out, of receiving news and marketing from LegalBeagles Group Ltd you can amend your settings at any time here.


                      If you would like to cancel your registration please Contact Us. We will delete your user details on request, however, any previously posted user content will remain on the site with your username removed and 'Guest' inserted.

                      Announcement

                      Collapse

                      Support LegalBeagles


                      Donate with PayPal button

                      LegalBeagles is a free forum, founded in May 2007, providing legal guidance and support to consumers and SME's across a range of legal areas.

                      See more
                      See less

                      Court Claim ?

                      Guides and Letters
                      Loading...



                      Search and Compare fixed fee legal services and find a solicitor near you.

                      Find a Law Firm


                      Working...
                      X