Lovells claim form sent to old address

[CluelessMum]

You need to contact the old landlord to see what information he can provide as far as the dates are concerned, preferably in writing.

When did your son live there? etc Data on energy on billing. See what that throws up.

Yes that should be doable. The Landlord lives in France now, but I believe he can still contact him. I've also told him to get his old bank statements to show rent paid and when it stopped. Also to show the direct debits to NPower. The plan is to use this information in the witness statement and evidence stage.

I'll get him to file this defence in the meantime as I think it explains the situation perfectly and he can prove details if/when it gets to court.

Will keep updated (nothing more frustrating than reading though posts that end abruptly with no outcome imo)

Once again, much appreciated

[CluelessMum]

Sorry to keep pestering you... just 2 small questions

R0b des8


2) The Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant on XX/XX/XXXX for utility services consisting of gas and electricity. The services were supplied to XXXXXXXXXXXX, XXXXXX, XXXXX (the Property).

should this be cClaimant or NPower as technically, he didn't have a contract with Lowells? Can he just leave the date bit out at this stage?

3) The gas and electricity is supplied to the Property through a 'meter'. The Claimant does not have the necessary infrastructure at the Property to obtain readings from 'smart meter technology' and so the Defendant is required to provide the Claimant with manual 'meter' readings.

should this be in past tense? Also it was just the electric

[echat11]

Sorry to keep pestering you... just 2 small questions

a) should this be cClaimant or NPower as technically, he didn't have a contract with Lowells?

Change it to NPower, although it's been assigned to them.

b) Can he just leave the date bit out at this stage?

Yes

c) should this be in past tense? Also it was just the electric

You can change it to 'was' if you want.

Remove 'gas and' from Point (2) and (3).

Can you also make sure 4 / 5/ 6/ 7 in your Defence corresponds to the paragraphs in their Particular of Claim.

[CluelessMum]

Can you also make sure 4 / 5/ 6/ 7 in your Defence corresponds to the paragraphs in their Particular of Claim.

I will do... crossing the Ts and dotting the Is as we speak.

Thank you, I cannot tell you what a help you've been and how much I appreciate it.

[echat11]

That's o.k., happy to help.

Keep updating the thread, watch the deadlines. Hopefully the SAR / landlord info will add too the Defence.

[CluelessMum]

quick update. Court accepted defence by email @ ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk and acknowledgement of defence was received by post dated 22/11.
Overdales Solicitors also accepted email but emailed back 22/11 requesting ID (including date of birth!!) current and previous address and reference number. Sent the Claim Form as id and answered other questions but did not provide dob. Their 7 days are up tomorrow/Tuesday.
Nothing received.from NPower/EON.as yet regarding SARS.
Letters were also posted 1st class in case emails were rejected.

[opera14]

That's o.k., happy to help.

Keep updating the thread, watch the deadlines. Hopefully the SAR / landlord info will add too the Defence.

Hi there - I wanted to ask the e-mail address you used was that also for the N244 form? I have an N244 form, Witness Statement, Draft Order and Draft Defence written up ready to send but I'm struggling to judge where I should sent them...by post or via e-mail!

Is that e-mail address for a specific court or a general CC e-mail?

Thanks so much!

[echat11]

Hi there - I wanted to ask the e-mail address you used was that also for the N244 form? I have an N244 form, Witness Statement, Draft Order and Draft Defence written up ready to send but I'm struggling to judge where I should sent them...by post or via e-mail!

Is that e-mail address for a specific court or a general CC e-mail?

Thanks so much!

ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk - that's for Northampton County Court Business Centre, when you get a Claim form it's sent from there.

In the subject line, you should set it out like this: <Claimant> v <Defendant> (Claim no. XXXX)

[CluelessMum]

ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk - that's for Northampton County Court Business Centre, when you get a Claim form it's sent from there.

In the subject line, you should set it out like this: <Claimant> v <Defendant> (Claim no. XXXX)

opera14 what echat11 said.Yes it was the business court as that's where the claim was from. He didn't send a postal copy, just the email. I then checked on his Moneyclaim site later that day to see if the court had updated it. A couple of days later, he received a letter by post confirming that Defence had been filed on the date of the email.

Good luck

[CluelessMum]

not so quick update but first, THANK YOU SO MUCH
Longer than intended so I'll break the posts
1. Filed the defence as above - he had the dates wrong by a year. Overdales acting for Lowell sent a bill which was an amended final bill dated March 2019 for energy used March 2018 - June 8th 2018. they also stated that the last payment was May 2018. and said they were not obligated to provide original agreement and were going ahead with the case (I suspect because he got the dates wrong, they thought they'd caught him out)

Ignored all letters until court directions received. Filed an amended defence with the correct year, apologised in his Witness Statement. He produced screenshots of all his direct debits showing he'd paid every month during his tenancy up to May 2018. The May payment appeared to be a six week payment, which would take him to the leaving date. This final amended bill stated arrears of around £300 and 400+ for 'energy used' March to June 2018. Every figure on there was an estimate. Their bundle was just this bill, notice of assignment to them and a few irrelevant letters from Lowell and Overdales which apparently prove he refused to engage with them and intended to not pay his debt thereby forcing them to court.
No response to SAR was ever received from NPower/Eon.
Overdales stated in one of their offer letters that arrived (separately) with their court bundle that they had spoken to NPower and my son was supposed to have some sort of video chat to come to an agreement about arrears (estimates) and he ignored them, no meter reading was given (the landlady did this when new tenant moved in). Right up until the week before the court date they tried to get settlement.
Court allocated a preliminary 30 minute to try to settle on12th April. Prior to going in to the room, he was asked if he was prepared to make an offer. His offer was £45.83 (the PoC were just over £1000.) Their rep laughed (but so did I when I said it, knowing he'd have to make that call). The offer was, as expected, rejected. I have to say he was really young, but was friendly and very amenable. My son explained he came to this figure by using the estimated arrears figure, deducted his two payments (April and May) from the alleged arrears amount and stated that on the basis of probability, the difference of £45.83 would be reasonable. He was not going to entertain this other estimated amount of over £400 for energy used March-May. All this was laid out in detail in his witness statement.
Prior to the above hearing, they offered settlement of 700 then 600 then back to 700. On the day, the Judge asked them if we had come to an agreement. They told the Judge they would only accept the full amount.

See next post for what happened at court

[CluelessMum]

2nd post (see above for background)

After introductions, the Judge asked Overdales... where is the breakdown of this bill? Where is the account showing all payments made? Where is the final bill before this amended final bill a year later. My son didn't even need to speak. The Judge ordered a 60 minute hearing to take place and for them to produce these documents and basically prove the debt.
A week later he received an email from Overdales stating that he 'admitted' to owing £45.83 and their client (Lowells) would now accept this plus their court fees (for which they said he is responsible in any event!) so a total of £185.83 to be paid by 26th April. On 26th, he emailed stating no such admission was ever made, the figure was arrived at on the basis of probability/benefit of the doubt and was a mediation offer at the court hearing. He stated that,as a gesture of goodwill, he is prepared to stand by that offer, he is not liable for their fees and the offer is on the basis of each party responsible for their own costs. Once they produce the court ordered documents, he will be in a position to respond at the later court hearing. (The judge estimated 1 hour hearing), He will not accept any other counter offers.
The next day he received an email stating they would accept the £45.83 in full and final settlement which he then paid.
SUCCESS, I couldn't have done it without this forum, especially echat11
I am sure they would never have been able to produce the documents and he would have nothing to pay, but it's been a difficult year, so far, he didn't want the hassle of another court date looming and he didn't want to use any more of his annual leave. It seemed a small price to pay and he was happy that he paid what seemed like a fair amount that COULD have been still outstanding.

One more post after this for those in the same position

[CluelessMum]

Final post (phew)


I also used the forum (I didn't post a thread,just read others) to help him get a sneaky default CCJ set aside for parking tickets sent to his old address after being told over the previous 4 years that he didn't live there (they had his email address and work email and address) as well as a parking ticket court case for my elderly mother (MSE for that one ). Bizzarly all 3 of these were on the same date in local court, 2 in the morning and the CCJ by telephone in the afternoon - less than 5 minutes tel call (although he refused to award costs for the £275 court fee even though the other side ignored everything - I had to do the bundle when it should have been joint, they filed nothing, didn't acknowledge anything, didn't provide a phone number and were not present), but the main thing is the CCJ has gone.

I'm happy to do NO more work on legal issues - hats off to you guys, it's not easy

Anyone reading this and worried about court, don't be. The ushers were super friendly and helpful, we had a laugh about me being there with my mum and son - they even got my mum's hearing in a bit early (9.50) and the usher for my son arranged with the Judge to wait until I'd finished in there to hear his. The judges weren't as scary as we thought. Justice did prevail - just the main parking hearing to go now which wasn't PoFA compliant and she wasn't driving, so expecting a last minute drop out from them. Even their rep said my biggest defence is the late NTK - wanted to dislike him, but even he was helpful (when you get that feeling they hate their job role esp taking an 80y/o to court).

SO KEEP FIGHTING, HEED THE ADVICE HERE, THE HARD WORK IS WORTH IT. Even if you mess up a few things, the courts take it into account and you are not expected to be a Legal Beagle, just know and understand what you present to them and why you're presenting it.

once again, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, it's very much appreciated.

[echat11]

Excellent results, well done you. As long as he's happy and not stressed.

[CluelessMum]

Excellent results, well done you. As long as he's happy and not stressed.

We are both very happy. Another snip off the apron strings

I hope someone else going through the same will read this and keep on with it. Sometimes you have to stand up and fight when you know you don't owe these people the amounts they say you do - even when they continue to use threatening and scary terms. It is confusing, it is scary and can be stressful, but the further down the line you go - it becomes less about the money per se and more about the principle

The Judge was great - I loved his tone and the way he held the bill in the air with disdain between his finger and thumb asking where the breakdown of this one bill is. He ordered them to provide every payment made by the Defendant and all bills sent to him including the original final bill. I suspect the Judge knew this wouldn't be possible, but dealt with it in the fairest way.

Another defeat for Lowells

Thank you once again and I'll leave it there