Harassment and small claims help

[Just234]

Great Thankyou

so i file this to the court straight away? And does he have to supply the document within 7 days of the order?
I haven’t filed my defence yet - do I file defence and counter claim still? Or can I defer till he supplies the document?

[efpom]

At the moment you have a claim against you and you are drafting a defence. You are entitled to inspect all of the documents mentioned in the statement of case i.e. the claim form per cpr 31.14.

The usual way that is done is by the claimant providing a copy (at your cost).
Here given the Order requires that all communication between you and the defendant and vice versa be by email, so what you are going to get is a copy of the document, which you assert is fake.

To put the claimant on notice that you will be setting him to his proof at trial that the documents are not fake, you serve the N268, being at present, a list of all the documents mentioned in the claim form within 7 days of your sight of those documents.

When he serves a witness statement on you, you serve another N268 on him, for all documents exhibited in his witness statement.

You must file with the court anything you write to the claimant, and he has the same obligation.

You were looking for a “knockout blow” with a strike out – it wont happen, and it wont happen with a N268 either.

The most you can hope for is that the claimant will decide to discontinue at some point before the trial date and the earliest that will happen is if on his receipt of the 1^st N268, he realizes that he will put to his proof at trial that the documents he is relying on are authentic.

If it turns out that they are found to be fake at trial, the claimant is in a world of trouble. See e.g. https://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/20...ts-mold-court/

The N268 is NOT an application to the Court for an Order.

[Just234]

I’m sorry please can you expand on that so as to get a better understanding

i already have the claimants documents included in his claik bundle- I don’t understand the need to request another copy
unless it was a digital copy of the statement that would prove it was fake by its meta data.
Can I I se this opportunity to ask for either a digital copy or a bank printed and bank verified statement?

if I send an email requesting this do I also send a copy of the request to court? He will ignore this request for sure. What do I do then? Does he have a timescale to send them to me?

RE-
To put the claimant on notice that you will be setting him to his proof at trial that the documents are not fake, you serve the N268, being at present, a list of all the documents mentioned in the claim form within 7 days of your sight of those documents.


so within 7 days of receiving the documents I send him and the court the N268 with a list of all the documents I say are fake and that puts him in a position that he then needs to demonstrate at trial they are not fake.

RE-
When he serves a witness statement on you, you serve another N268 on him, for all documents exhibited in his witness statement.

I already have his witness statement in the court bundle so I’m going easing this does not apply in this instance.
his witness statement is only a version of events and contains no references to the evidence supplied.

Bottom line - I want this N268 to put him in a position where he has to provide original bank statement.
at this point his case will fail
will this form do exactly that?
what is the like-hood of him wriggling his way out of that?

[efpom]

I am now confused.

At what point are these proceedings at?

The usual process is that:

1 a claim is issued – there is no documentary evidence.
2 A cpr 31.14 request for all documents mentioned in the claim form aka statement of case aka particulars of claim can be made by the respondent by serving that on the claimant and filing it with the court.
3 The respondent files and serves his defence. If the cpr 31.14 request is not fulfilled, the respondent says that in his witness statement and also says he is not placed to enter a proper defence until he gets the documents.
4 The court issues an allocation questionnaire and an Order for witness statements to be exchanged and filed.
5 The witness statement mentions documents.
6 Those documents - Exhibits, are attached to the Witness statements.
7 The court sets a trial date.
At what stage in the process are you at?

There is no claim bundle of documents. There is simply a claim form.

[Just234]

I’ve received the claim form along with all documentation- witness statement, particulars of claim and all evidentiary documentation needed to support his case against me.

I have I think 11 days now to file my defence/file acknowledgment of service.

[efpom]

Are you saying that all of "claim form along with all documentation- witness statement, particulars of claim and all evidentiary documentation needed to support his case against me." arrived in one envelope?

[efpom]

A claimant is not entitled to file and serve any documentary evidence when issuing a claim.

For a money claim, which this is, see the Order you posted up, he fills in a claim form - N1 Claim form (CPR Part 7) and sends it to the court, either electronically or by post. He has 14 days to file his particulars of claim - POC, if he does not file his POC at the same time as his form N1.

The POC is a concise statement of the nature of the claim.

The defendant is served with the claim form and the POC by the court. He has 14 days to file his acknowledgement of service with the court and a further 14 days to file his defence if he does not file his defence at the same time.

A defendant is entitled per CPR 31.14 to request the claimant to inspect any document mentioned in the POC. One way of doing that is to physically inspect the originals of documents mentioned in the POC. Another way to inspect is by requesting a copy of the documents be sent to him, either as a paper copy or electronically by email.

the Claimant is a litigant in person who has started a paper claim, in the County Court Money Claims (paper) Centre in Salford,
and has sent his N1 and POC to the court.

But he has also sent “all documentation- witness statement, …and all evidentiary documentation needed to support his case” to the court.

The claimant was not entitled to do that.

He has also made a separate application to the court to keep his physical address secret from you and the court has made an Order to that effect.

What may have happened is a) that the court office has, by mistake, sent you everything the claimant sent to the court rather than just serving you with the N1 and the POC
or
b) that the defendant himself has sent you a copy of everything he sent to the court.

Either way, it is for you to file your defence answering only the assertions in the POC and to make a proper answer, you are entitled per cpr 31.14 to request the defendant to inspect those either physically, or by requesting a copy be sent to you.

Every time a party to proceedings writes to his opponent(s) he must file a copy of that with the court – there are some exceptions to that, but they are not in play here.

It is clear from the Order you posted up, that this is a Money Claim.

Please post up the N1 and the POC only.

That will facilitate posters assisting you in formulating your defence.

[Just234]

Yes to the above question - I have received everything together

please see claim form attached
he has then included a letter headed Particulars of Claim which he has then written underneath statement of truth where it is a blow by blow account of what he says happened, how we met, how it transpired that we owe money etc. More what I would call a witness statement.
there is no reference in this 3 page long document to any of the supporting documentation that he has also included in the bundle. of Fake bank statements and fake letters.
I would post it but because there is so many personal details within it it is too much to redact.

so in effect there is no particulars of claim.

[efpom]

The Particulars of Claim is the 3 page document,

If you have to redact parts of it, then so be it.

Post up that(redacted) -it is that that you have to defend - if's a 'dog's breakfast', of a claim, it is what it is.

[Just234]

Ok it will take me time to go through it.

please help me with the n268?

how do I word it?
do I just list the documents I see as fake?
Di I go into any detail and ask for bank verified statement?

[efpom]

Forget the N268 for the moment - it's premature.

Depending on what the POC says and whether the POC complies with court rules, it might be that because the POC is a 'dog's breakfast', you might plead in your defence that the court of it's own motion strikes out the claim which, if it does, will save you the time, trouble and cost of applying yourself for a strike out.

Get on with posting up the POC - no one on here can give you any assistance with your defence until they see the POC.

[Just234]

Ok here is the particulars of claim

He writes a good story but believe me when I say he has done a lot worse and received a custodial sentence for it.

[Just234]

Also included this

[efpom]

OK read those documents.
Q? one defendant or two?
CPR 31.14 request is below
Ref claim NoXXXXXXX
Pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules at cpr 31.14 I request that you provide a copy of the following documents. I undertake to pay the reasonable costs of copying those documents
You state in your Particulars of Claim the following:
“I was given photographs and addresses of property to look at”
Please provide a copy of all of those documents
“There is similar fact evidence to show a course of conduct in official records”
“Please provide a copy of those official records”
---
I attach a blank copy of N268

[Just234]

Ok
So I email the request for these documents? To him and the court ?

and I fill out the n268 form once I have received the documents listing the documents I want him to prove the validity of in court?