Caught Stealing from Work, Letter from CRS

[beagleman]

Re: Caught Stealing from Work, Letter from CRS

I beg to differ. They are acting under the instructions and on behalf of Game, are making allegations and are demanding money. The fact they are not solicitors is irrelevant. They are obliged to provide evidence. Also, it could be argued they are conducting litigation which is a reserved activity under the Legal Services Act 2007. Press them to disclose if they have any legal professionals on their staff and the names of those persons. Check their names against those held by the relevant regulatory bodies - SRA, BSB, IoP, CILEX - and if they are not registered as required under the aforementioned Act, report the matter. Any legal professional involved in dealing with litigation is required, by law, to be registered with a regulatory body.

I am also wondering if you may have a case against CRS and Game under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

Referring to another thread for a moment, a Law Commissioner has told RLP that a CR operator will not, normally, be liable to criminal or civil action, so long as they do not engage in misleading or aggressive practices. My gut-feeling is that CRS are engaging in misleading and aggressive practices and may be liable to action under legislation designed to deal with businesses who engage in misleading and aggressive practices.

Brilliant, thank you, I will begin writing a reply soon enough - what else can I throw at them? Is there some bits I should leave out and let them fall on their own sword?

Getting genuinely sick of them now, and this latest reply has caused me enough distress between my family as well.

[bluebottle]

Re: Caught Stealing from Work, Letter from CRS

Brilliant, thank you, I will begin writing a reply soon enough - what else can I throw at them? Is there some bits I should leave out and let them fall on their own sword?

Getting genuinely sick of them now, and this latest reply has caused me enough distress between my family as well.

Draft the letter and post it on this thread. If anything needs changing or tightening up, it can be done before you commit it to print and send to CRS.

[wales01man]

Re: Caught Stealing from Work, Letter from CRS

The whole point of their letters like those from and the DCAs is to wind people up get them down and are hoping the pay up,If they wer so sure of winning in a court they would go through the proper legal process sooner and WIN? some chance if the OP challenges them they will put up or shut up

[bluebottle]

Re: Caught Stealing from Work, Letter from CRS

The whole point of their letters like those from and the DCAs is to wind people up get them down and are hoping the pay up,If they wer so sure of winning in a court they would go through the proper legal process sooner and WIN? some chance if the OP challenges them they will put up or shut up

Not only that, Wales, if CRS/Game don't fall foul of legislation designed to deal with misleading and aggressive business practices, there is nothing to say they won't fall foul of the Criminal Law. My gut-feeling is that, sooner or later, one of these CR firms is going to having its hide tanned, legally, by one of its victims, along with a retailer client. TBH, CR is not much longer for this world.

[beagleman]

Re: Caught Stealing from Work, Letter from CRS

Not only that, Wales, if CRS/Game don't fall foul of legislation designed to deal with misleading and aggressive business practices, there is nothing to say they won't fall foul of the Criminal Law. My gut-feeling is that, sooner or later, one of these CR firms is going to having its hide tanned, legally, by one of its victims, along with a retailer client. TBH, CR is not much longer for this world.

I would love to give them a good, tanned hide

[labman]

Re: Caught Stealing from Work, Letter from CRS

I beg to differ. They are acting under the instructions and on behalf of Game, are making allegations and are demanding money. The fact they are not solicitors is irrelevant. They are obliged to provide evidence. Also, it could be argued they are conducting litigation which is a reserved activity under the Legal Services Act 2007. Does this mean that everyone who asks for money as a speculative invoice is unlawful? What about people who sue a company - they're conducting litigation? Press them to disclose if they have any legal professionals on their staff and the names of those persons. Check their names against those held by the relevant regulatory bodies - SRA, BSB, IoP, CILEX - and if they are not registered as required under the aforementioned Act, report the matter. Any legal professional involved in dealing with litigation is required, by law, to be registered with a regulatory body.

I am also wondering if you may have a case against CRS and Game under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. I really cannot see this. Surely there would be case law by now? I'm not aware of any.

Referring to another thread for a moment, a Law Commissioner has told RLP that a CR operator will not, normally, be liable to criminal or civil action, so long as they do not engage in misleading or aggressive practices. My gut-feeling is that CRS are engaging in misleading and aggressive practices and may be liable to action under legislation designed to deal with businesses who engage in misleading and aggressive practices. What is special about this case that makes it different to every other case to which the Law Commissioner was referring?

Is it just me, or do loads of threads at the moment seem to be committing a criminal act of one form or another? I really don't think this is realistic, nor do I think it helps the OP, as it raises their hopes. One day, some poor soul will follow this advice and it will end up costing them a fortune. To me it is worrying.

[charitynjw]

Re: Caught Stealing from Work, Letter from CRS

I would love to give them a good, tanned hide

(Tan his hide when he's dead, Fred! )

[beagleman]

Re: Caught Stealing from Work, Letter from CRS

Is it just me, or do loads of threads at the moment seem to be committing a criminal act of one form or another? I really don't think this is realistic, nor do I think it helps the OP, as it raises their hopes. One day, some poor soul will follow this advice and it will end up costing them a fortune. To me it is worrying.

I think the fact that they have not produced any documents to me after requesting them, and the fact that they are at no financial loss as the items in question were to be thrown out is evidence enough that this claim they are making is ridiculous. I really dont see how it can end up costing my a fortune.

[beagleman]

Re: Caught Stealing from Work, Letter from CRS

My letter is below, I really want to pad it out and hit them hard, anything else I can include that I may have missed?

Dear,

Your Ref: 137804

Thank you for your letter dated 24 July 2013, in which you claim to enclose an extract bearing my signature against any items taken from Game Retail Ltd, which is false – there are not documents enclosed which indeed bear my signature, nor state any items taken from Game Retail Ltd.

I will reiterate, it appears you are non-compliant with Civil Procedures Rules, in that you have -

a. failed to state a discernible case against me; and
b. failed to show me the documents and other evidence on which you intend to rely.

Furthermore, your letter discloses no evidence and no case and is not a Letter of Claim.

You are put on notice that until and unless you comply with Civil Procedures Rules by providing a heading "Letter of Claim" AND disclose all the evidence on which you intend to rely AND disclose your legal case, as is required by Civil Procedures Rules, I am not only unable to respond, but quite unable to understand why you are making these demands.

You are further put on notice that you make unlawful threats against me, which fall outside of legal protection, and I reserve my position as to whether I will pursue you, and/or your "client" (assuming it is true you act for them), in the criminal and civil jurisdictions.

In accordance with CPR Pre-action protocol, you have 14 days in which to comply with my request for you to provide ALL evidence on which you intend to rely AND disclose your legal case AND a "Letter of Claim".

CPR Pre-Action Protocol requires you to make available ALL evidence in which you are relying on, including documentary evidence. If you continue to keep referring to alleged matters, but not producing any evidence to corroborate it, may I remind you that if yourselves and your client attempt to pursue any court proceedings, non-compliance may result in an adverse decision against yourselves and your client

The fact that your letter is not issued by a solicitor is irrelevant, you are acting under the instructions and on behalf of Game, are making allegations and are demanding money. You are obliged to provide evidence.

I would also like to know that if you have any legal professionals on your staff, if so, I would like to know the names of these persons, as you are conducting litigation that is a reserved activity under the Legal Services Act 2007.

Need I remind you, financial gain is NOT permitted by Civil Recovery, I would like a breakdown of all alleged charges and how you met the figure which you claim I owe – which you noted in your first letter to me as being the value of the loss, compensation to your client for the investigation, security and administration costs.

Yours

[bluebottle]

Re: Caught Stealing from Work, Letter from CRS

Is it just me, or do loads of threads at the moment seem to be committing a criminal act of one form or another? I really don't think this is realistic, nor do I think it helps the OP, as it raises their hopes. One day, some poor soul will follow this advice and it will end up costing them a fortune. To me it is worrying.

I'll do you the courtesy of answering the points you've raised, Labman.

PPCs are just plain chancers, as you well know. They are not what this thread is about. What this thread is about are civil recovery operators who act for retailers and prey on people's vulnerabilities. A lot of alleged CR cases are due to incompetent and badly-behaved and trained retail security staff, not to mention POS and security technology with a known history of reliability issues. The Oxford case demonstrated that there is an element of dishonesty involved in CR claims, evidenced by the two security personnel who were forced to admit, under cross-examination, on oath, that the figures they had quoted for time and cost were exaggerated.

With regard to litigation, any person representing another in a litigation case has to be registered in accordance with the Legal Services Act 2007. CRS and RLP represent others and, as such, it could be argued that they should be registered in accordance with the Act. Neither of them are registered.

With regard to the PfHA, CRS have yet to demonstrate there is a valid and discernible case, in law. As yet, they have not. Don't forget that in Ferguson -v- British Gas Trading [2009], Ferguson owed nothing to BGT, but BGT continued to badger her for payment she did not owe, threatening her with legal action.

With regard to the Law Commissioner's comment to RLP, he made it quite clear that a CR operator is unlikely to be liable to civil or criminal action, so long as they do not engage in misleading or aggressive practices.

As for the comment you have raised in the final part of the quote in your post, cases have to be looked at from different angles, not just on the face of it, otherwise, there is a further risk that an OP could be given incorrect advice or guidance.

In Beagleman's case, I have offered an opinion. The mention of the regulators is an avenue of enquiry to determine whether the regulators consider a CR operator should be conducting their business under the ambit and scope of legislation that is intended to protect people from unscrupulous individuals and businesses.

[wales01man]

Re: Caught Stealing from Work, Letter from CRS

Whatever advice is given on here the decision on what action to take against the CR company lies with the OP from what I have read they are digesting all the info on here and more they seem to be competent enough to make their descion

[charitynjw]

Re: Caught Stealing from Work, Letter from CRS

Whatever advice is given on here the decision on what action to take against the CR company lies with the OP from what I have read they are digesting all the info on here and more they seem to be competent enough to make their descion

Yes, wales, I'd noticed that as well, & I have no doubt that the OP can now make an informed choice, with thanks to the knowledgeable posters on here.

[beagleman]

Re: Caught Stealing from Work, Letter from CRS

I appreciate the help - I just want to get as much help from as many people as possible.

I understand that it is my decision, I just don't want to go in to be shot down in flames, hence why my next letter needs to be rock solid, please see in the posts above

[CleverClogs]

Re: Caught Stealing from Work, Letter from CRS

My gut-feeling is that, sooner or later, one of these CR firms is going to having its hide tanned, legally, by one of its victims, along with a retailer client.

The victim getting damages for harassment whilst the client gets damages for losses caused by bad advice?

TBH, CR is not much longer for this world.

We can only hope so.

[charitynjw]

Re: Caught Stealing from Work, Letter from CRS

I appreciate the help - I just want to get as much help from as many people as possible.

I understand that it is my decision, I just don't want to go in to be shot down in flames, hence why my next letter needs to be rock solid, please see in the posts above

IMHO, beagleman, that's what forums like this are all about!